Everton FC E-mails 265 - Stadium Special 27

Whatever you think e-mail your views to info@bluekipper.com
and we will put your views here.

Evertonians Will Follow Their Team Anywhere

I'm getting sick and tired of all the people saying they are true blues and then going on to say they will no longer follow the club if they go to kirby. THAT MEANS YOU ARE NOT A TRUE BLUE!!! Why do you bother in the first place? Just stay from Goodison as well! I personally don't want to sit alongside fans like you! Phil B. (14/08/07)

The Everton Franchise

Forget about the ifs and maybes involved in staying at a redeveloped goodison park ( there is no way we are going to be able to finance a move to anywhere else inside the city boundary) it is ridiculous to consider using it as a plan B.

it is quite clear that a minority element are trying to hoodwink the thoughts and emotions of the majority. i have always lived on the wirral but i have always loved the city of liverpool and without doubt this can wholly be attributed to watching everton ( or the hopeless as my late father always called them) over the last forty years. however sentiment apart i could not care were the new ground is going to be built i have now had enough of the embarrassing home we call goodison park. i have been fortunate to travel to many of the new stadiums built over the last five years as i take a friend to games who is confined to a wheelchair. the facilities that we enjoy at these new stadiums are luxurious compared to the decrepit goodison park. i have to admit i do not enjoy going to goodison now especially when i am sitting in one of the 10,000 obstructed viewed seats. having to wait 15-20 mins for a drink at halftime and then rushing it to get back to my obstructed view doesn't help neither. not to mention leaving my car unattended for 3-4 hours off some shady back street never fills me with confidence that it will be in one piece when i return or it will be without a parking ticket. these are all problems that can be sorted out by a move to kirkby.

the biggest mind set we need to change is that everton does not belong to the city it belongs to the supporters. we need to modernise quickly and kirby and tesco will offer us that lifeline because nothing else will really give us confidence for the future. i will be glad to move away from the shite. i hate having to look at the ground from my seat at goodison. liverpool city council have give the shite everything so therefore we owe them nothing. it leaves a bad taste that they bend over backwards for the shite yet we are offered scraps by the council as bradley tries to satisfy his ego. its all too little too late councillor!

a ground move to kirkby will give us a wonderful stadium ( that could be made even more impressive as we get more successful). transport links will be the envy of all premiership clubs. secure parking in a safe enviroment. catering facilities to match those of any new state of the art stadium. new players will want to come and play in a new stadium. i totally believe in the theory of the new stadium effect. more money will be generated more new fans will be generated and a new everton franchise will be developed that will finally give us the finance to take this great club forward.

yes i may be selling out but this isn't the 80's when a club can win things with a great coach alone, football is big business now so we need to change our way of thinking before its too late. nothing but the best is good enough and a redevelopment of goodison will consign us to history. don't let your heart rule your head. vote yes to kirkby. bluesheik. (14/08/07)

Vote Yes

I have just seen the proposed plans for redevelopment of Goodison Park and it has just gone to prove that there really isn't a plan B. How can anyone in their right mind believe that this proposal is the right thing for our club? Does this proposal look equipped to service our needs for the next 100 years?

The fact is if we stay at Goodison for another 10 years we will be in the Championship, this summer's transfer activity has gone to prove we cannot compete with the likes of Portsmouth etc. If the fans vote against Kirkby it will mark the end of our club, we will end up with the likes of Preston as one of those 'Good old traditional clubs' who have been left behind by the modern game. The 'Loop' proposal is just as pathetic, it is pie in the sky stuff, SHOW ME THE MONEY! Liverpool City Council have consistently proven that they regard us as second class citizens and for us to go cap in hand for a "Plan B" is simply embarrassing.

To all of you who believe that there is a Plan B, WAKE UP, THERE REALLY ISN'T!

Finally, if people are so upset at the thought of moving to Kirkby, I propose that next season we should be running out to a new theme tune, after all, Z Cars was based in Kirkby and we wouldn't want to loose our city roots would we? everton_IAN. (14/08/07)

Move Yes Kirkby No

Before the yes brigade cast there votes let them think about a few things first.

1)how will they get to Kirkby on match days
2)What price will their new seat be
3)how many supporters will we lose if the team is not successful
4)what has Keith Wyness ever done for EFC
5)How many of the current players who are supporting the move will still be with us in 5 years time (players and managers come and go fans are forever)
6)Do you really want to hand the city over to Gerrard Carragher and co
7)Why did tesco want to tie us in to an Exclusivity deal and why was Kenwright foolish enough to agree.
8) Do you really believe EFC will cease to exist if the vote is No

This deal is not all what it seems, don't throw away over a hundred years of history in a second by voting Yes. Everton will survive without Kirkby give Liverpool City Council one last chance to get it right WE CAN WAIT. VOTE NO TO KIRKBY. Eddy Bernard. (14/08/07)

KEIOC Propaganda

The above named describe Brian Reade - Mirror Hack and well known dickhead (shitefan) as a "decent bloke" ? Anyone who has read any of his pieces will know that this is shite. KEIOC also seem to be suggesting that a new stadium is possible on the bestway site. If this was a possibility I would be happy to go down that road. So if they would like to tell us who is going to put up the money then we can all vote no to the kirkby scheme. But that's the problem isn't it there is no money and no backers. EFC ain'tgot the cash. KEIOC seem only to be bothered about postcodes as far as I can see. They are that desperate that they have to point to a washed up knobhead redshite journo to support their argument. Whats next" Bill Shankley supports KEIOC". Kevin Byrne

Kirkby Town FC

If we move to Kirkby are we going to change our name to Kirkby Town FC, Knowsley United FC or Kirkby FC like Wimbledon did when moving to Milton Keynes, MK Dons? If we win some silverware, where will the victory parade be, from Speke airport to Cronton, Prescot, Halewood, Huyton and then ending up in Kirkby and a welcome by Sir Terry at his new flagship supermarket? Liverpool Council and Warren Bradley are hardly likely to welcome us with open arms after telling them to stuff their sites. Vote no going to Kirkby and avoid the above. Anon. (14/08/07)

New Stadium Embrace It

If there's no money, then there's simply no money. It's a shame that Liverpool city will no ,longer have a founder member of the football league within its boundaries. We'll take our history with us! and if Kirkby embraces us then Kirkby will have a founder member of the football league within its boundaries............something to shout about! A new stadium signals a new beginning, an investor would be more interested in a stadium that can seat 50,000 plus than 38,000. No-one's chasing us to invest, and I'm not sure I want a Gillette and Hicks scenario they're not investing they're borrowing and putting Liverpool into massive debt!...................What happens when they get fed up with Soccer............... Everyone get real! Change brings its own reward for those with the courage to embrace it! John Pac. (14/08/07)

Rhein Energie Stadion the new Goodison Park?

I attended the so called new Goodison Park to watch FC Köln v Bayer Munich in a pre season friendly. Rhein Energie Stadion…………what makes this place special? If this is what the new GP will be based on, let's look in detail. This was built over a two year period in preparation for the world cup in 2006 at a cost of 120million Euros. It was built on the same site as the old Mungersdorf stadion so the location and infrastructure was well established way before the world cup.The stadium is well served by an excellent tram service from town center and car parking is of a plenty. The surrounding area is a vast open space of park and woodland partly owned by the local University which use the facilities for their own gain, plenty of tennis courts, Swimming pools, footy pitches etc etc. Space is not an issue. The cost of the tram from the town center is included in the match day ticket cost €19 for a seat in the upper tier behind the goal. This is valid six hours up to kick off and immediately after the game.

On approaching the ground there are ample Bier gartens selling the local hooch but more about that later. The ground itself seats 50,000 and is an open structure on all sides, no breize block built facades here. All 4 sides are twin decked stands, no bowl formation here. It reminds me of the old South stand at Twickenham. Tickets are bar scanned and then we are in to an open concourse with lots of bars and food snack type outlets.
A credit card system is used for all purchases. This card is given away free and loaded with your cash at your will, thus speeding up the beer service. The local hooch known as Kölsch is served up in recyclable jugs. These are very handy as the are stackable and you can carry about 4 in each hand (honestly). The problem here is to make sure you get your round in before kick off and not get lumbered with going for everyone's ale during the match. They do have beer sellers coming round the seats but the beer is more expensive. You pays yer money, you take your choice.

There are two video screens in opposite corners and if I were to be critical they could do with being a bit larger. The PA system is second to none. Every announcement is crystal clear and booms out at every opportunity. It like sitting in a cinema with surround sound. This adds to the atmosphere along with the playing of the Cologne anthem with is sung by everyone with scarves held aloft 5 mins before kick off. Reminiscent of our loveable neighbours. This led me to think what it would be like to the sound of "It's a grand old team " followed by Z cars. It really did make me tingle. Every seat has unobstructed views as per every modern stadia and there is a standing area in one corner of the ground for those who wish to stand. Wheelchairs have their own section pitchside. Corporate guests have their own special underground car park which no doubt enters the labyrinth of corridors which leads them to their box in time for tea and scones.

These boxes are on all 4 sides but hidden away discreetly from the eyeline. The upper tiers are approximately 45 degrees to the pitch which may seem steep but it's only like watching from the Main stand top balcony today, except the pitch seems a lot nearer. The game itself was a bit dull but brightened up in the 2nd half and that's when we heard this atmosphere Wyness keeps banging on about. When all 50,000 start singing it really does create a special 'sound'. At full time there is no mad rush to get out , there are plenty of exits all wide enough to keep the flow going. Bars are still open and many take advantage of one last beer before bed. The whole stadium can be cleared in 15 mins apparently.
If this is what we've been promised then gimme one of those please…………….but keep it within the city limits. Kenny Evans. (14/08/07)

Don't Know

I will say it again, I don't want to move but "Everton have not got the finance to build a new stadium on the Bestway site & Liverpool City Council are full of SHIT". "So stop listening to them and just vote for Kirkby a free stadium". Just been looking at the Plan B, it looks great but where's the money coming from. We haven't got the money and that's one of the reason why we're voting on Kirkby, Tesco's Terry is building it for what. One other thing that's I cant get out of my head is that, can we trust the Liverpool City Red Council F.C. (If we say No to Kirby, are the council going to say NO 8 months down the line to Plan B). We could end up with nothing but walking past the SHIT being built on Stanley park every match game, I don't know about you but I don't want to be walking past that bastard every match game. I don't know what to vote, one minute I'm voting NO then the next it YES. Bluenose Bimbo. (14/08/07)

Kirkby move - Yes

Evertonians have to stop talking about a move elsewhere in the City. A move of this kind would cost Everton £135 million (land + construction + fit out). Kirkby costs Everton £10 million (fit out only). Everton couldn't find £30 million for the Kings Dock, so what chance £135 million. Let's not throw away this opportunity for the sake of a line on a map and the so called Evertonians whose pre-match pint in the Wilmslow is more important than the future of our club. Mike R. (14/08/07)

Stadium Proposals Are Brilliant

What do Stevie Gerrard, Stubbs, Hibbert, Peter Reid etc have in common? All born or grew up in Knowsley. Yet they're always associated with the city of Liverpool. Steven Gerrard was born in Whiston, grew up in Huyton, Knowsley, Joey Barton grew up on St Johns Estate in Knowsley. Our very own right back Tony Hibbert, Peter Reid, Geoff Nulty born and grew up in Knowsley. Where is big nose Phil Thompson from??? Kirkby. Where's Alan Stubbs from? Kirkby. Terry McDermott hails from Kirkby, and Evertonian and Everton target Leighton Baines born and grew up in Kirkby. Kirkby has a deep association with Liverpool. The very reason the town was created a new town was because of a housing shortage in Liverpool after WW2 caused by the Blitz.

IF Everton move to Kirkby, the post town will be Liverpool, the dial code will be 0151, the postal code will start with L32.....it is just 4 miles away from Goodison Park. Someone with a death-wish on a motorbike could get from Goodison to Kirkby in literally 2 minutes. The stadium proposal is brilliant for Everton in so many ways and the ones opposing it argue against simply because it's NOT within the (artificial) boundaries of Liverpool City. I find the argument against crap to say the least. Being a scouser living 340 miles away from Goodison Park, 4 miles to me seems very small and laughable. Those opposing it live in a small world and need to look at it from a bigger picture, a bigger perspective. From Rob -D. (14/08/07)

The leaving of Liverpool

At last I am reading some sense about the proposed move to Kirkby. I applaud Jim 'once a blue always a blue' M. There will always be an emotional side to moving away from Goodison, however we can't get wrapped up in the history of our club and watch it implode. I have always been proud to read about the EFC 'firsts'....when was the last time we did anything first? I am talking about a private company basing a major financial decision on the say so of non investing parties i.e. us the fans. No other football club or business has ever and probably will ever do this. At the end of the day, it is down to those people who have a vote to make the right decision and whatever way the vote goes, just ensure your conscious is clear!

I for one will vote for the move.....no other investment is likely, no other deal will be as 'real' as this one, and the time is certainly right. It will hurt to move from Goodison/Walton but it won't kill me or the Club........the choice is ours! Al 'goldenvision66' C. (14/08/07)

Torn

I’m literally torn on whether we should move or not. I love Goodison, I have done ever since the old fella first took me there and I’ve hardly missed a game since. One of the best parts about going the match is the walk through the streets... You could never, ever recreate that. Goodison has it’s own life, it’s where we belong and I honestly believe other teams fear playing there especially when the fans are up for it. It’s not the fact that we might be moving to Kirby for me, it’s the fact that we have to move that makes me feel gutted. Even if we were the ones on Stanley Park... I don’t want to sit in some new, modern stadium in which every stand looks the same and it looks like every other stadium in the country. At Goodison we’re all so close to the pitch, it makes you feel more a part of the game. Can a new stadium really come anywhere close to this?? I don’t think so.

Sadly though, we can’t stay at Goodison forever... I’d love nothing more than them to redevelop it but it doesn’t look as if that is possible. Gutted. So, to be honest, if we have to move then it doesn’t matter to me if it is Kirby. The most successful club in Manchester, are situated in Stretford, Salford. It hasn’t given them too much cause for concern. I’ll always be a blue and I’ll go wherever they go... No matter what. Gaz (Park End). (14/08/07)

Yes Or No

I would like to see the ground developed in Liverpool, because it would be sad to give up the city for the RED SHITE to dominate the Liverpool 'city' logo, where Everton would be out on a limb, in a suburb and losing their city identity. IF there are no alternatives for location within the city, then we HAVE to relocate on the suburbs! Everyone is full of trepidation, worrying about loss of identity with the city, but it may be a godsend that we are surviving, with healthy finances and securing the long term prosperity of Everton as a club for future generations. Some fans have used the Manure ground, as an example of redevelopment, whilst staying where you are! Nobody has mentioned a compulsory purchase of housing around the ground, and building new houses for the deposed homeowners, in Kirkby. This way they get modern houses, and the majority of the fans get what they want. .....Although, i'm sure the homeowners/tenants may not agree with this! It is a 'tough' call, for hearts and minds, and nobody wants to see the RED SHITE once again undermining the Everton faithful, as they have done for the last 30 years or so...........in a nutshell if we cannot redevelop in the city, then it has to be a suburb......a new ground would be nice! If we have to move..............think of the extra Tesco club points, we will be able to buy at least two more players, and may be get some cash back! Mal(Trueblue).....but not holdings! (14/08/07)

The Move

I am sentimental and couldn't bare to move from Goodison, which is not dilapidated can I just say, but I appreciate that one day we may have to
move. My question is, is this the time? other clubs who have moved had hardly had success, someone said Bolton were successful?? so why did big Sam leave? and if you have ever been to Bolton you'll know they haven't many fans, it takes (no exaduration) 45-60 mins to get out of the retail park surrounding Bolton. Man city, Arsenal just moved, had 2 and 1 of their worst seasons respectively, Sunderland got relegated, all be it they've done well to get back up this season. I can not believe someone stuck up for Peter Johnson btw, he was a gobby bringing us down from the inside. Where is this extra money coming from with the stadium in kirby exactly??? it can't come from the extra 10,000 seats coz our attendance (incl away fans) is 36,000, and lets face it less than 1/4 of the prem teams who come to Goodison actually fill their away seat allocation, so this extra 10,000 certainly won't be coming from the away fans on a regular basis, and with us being out the city where will it come from in terms of the home fans? it will be that much further away to get to as much as any thing else. Think of the next generation from liverpool, it's even more likely that they will turn red if we aren't even int he city, and If the plan is to use the stadium for concerts etc, well, no offense, but I can't see Robbie Williams performing in Kirby and how exactly would we be MORE likely to be relegated if we stayed at Goodison? as mentioned by someone.

If we do have to move and I accept maybe one day we should (though we could put another tier on park end which is designed to hold another tier btw and develop bullens road if the council bought the houses) but if we do move, I think it should be in Liverpool if at all possible and I think we should wait until we have established ourselves in the premiership, it was only a few seasons ago we were finishing very near the bottom and battling relegation, am I the only one who sat through all that misery?? coz it sounds like it with all these high expectations some Evertonians seem to have at the moment. We need to consistently finish in the top half of the table never mind top 6, get a good cup run and same with europe. personally, I would rather we bought players than a new stadium, and lets face it all this stadium talk is detracting us from the fact we have brought very few players in again this season, we should wait till we are bursting at the seams in terms of attendance, money and success before even contemplating moving. What happens if we struggle again? a fall out between moyes and the board, a few key players getting injured or tempted away, we get relegated, but it's ok coz we've got a new stadium, that'll certainly cheer me up, especially when it's half full. Bryony- Upper Gwladys. (14/08/07)

NO PLAN B (your havin a laugh)

Any Corporate Company (EVERYONE FC) who hasn't got a plan B should be struck off comanies house list. THE answer to that question is ASK MR KENRIGHT WHAT happened to the PLANS the GFE had done TO PROUVE GOODISON PARK could be REDEVELOPED you were 100% BEHIND us then MR KENRIGHT. SO YES THERE IS A PLAN B but maybe you over looked that FACT for a bus ride to KIRKBY and TAKE US (THE PEOPLES CLUB ha ha ) out of OUR CITY. PAULINE C. (14/08/07)

Stadium Debate

I was born a Blue and will always be one. I started in the Boys Pen in the 1950’s when Goodison was one of the best grounds in the country. Now I live in Canada. So I don’t have a vote on the stadium, and nor should I have one because I can’t get to matches any more. But I do have an opinion, like others in this debate. It’s been said here previously, but it does come down to head versus heart. I cannot imagine a single Blue WANTING to leave Goodison Park. Emotionally the place means so much to every one of us. Personally I have fifty years of wonderful memories. But I also think that most Blues would acknowledge that our beloved home is pretty shabby these days and needs shedloads of money to be spent on her, money that should be spent on the team. The difficulty I have therefore is that there appears to be a very viable offering on the table which makes a great deal of business sense. The head says that this is a very sound BUSINESS proposition that will financially benefit the club.

The heart though is on the KEIOC side. However, there is no solid business alternative being proposed. Yes, there are vague murmurings about Bestway and Scottie Road and Speke and Walton, but nothing of any substance. If there is a real alternative, then let’s put it on the table so that we have real options to weigh. Right now, it’s a one-choice business decision. EverTony McBride. (14/08/07)

Going to Kirkby is the right move

With all the debate about the Kirkby move and the stigma attached about Identity, EFC haven't got one within World Football. Before everyone starts jumping in with we where the first club in the city and all that, remember the last time we won a trophy was in 1995 we haven't been a dominant force since 1987, three times in the last 22 years have we been in a european competition. Everywhere I go in the country all you see in the sports shops are Chelsea, Manc Scum and Red Shite shirts, I know the red shite are spending big have a new stadium being built but they also have the global status as the city's club. They go hand in hand with the beatles and that is down to pure marketing success (not just on the field), as they and the other top four follow the marketing machine of the Premier league we along with the other clubs are getting left behind. If we look at the clubs that have built nice new stadiums out of there OWN MONEY, Middlesborough, Sunderland, Leicester, Southampton & Derby. Each of them clubs where relegated and with the exception of Middlesbourgh, did do or nearly went into administration. Look at Arsenal ok they have never spent big money but they have a massive debt over them because of the Emirates Stadium, when you look at them and other clubs who have built there own stadiums they have suffered and I know Liverpool will suffer even though they have Billionaire investors they will have to recuperate that cost each year and if they don't get success there assets will have to be sold.

In our case we can only WIN all it will cost to Everton as a club is 10 million to fit the stadium out, I know it will be part of Tesco but that may not be a bad thing remember the man behind Tesco is a blue and he is one of the richest men in britain and if you are to believe the rumours if the proposal of the stadium is a YES he and Mr Plannet Holywood are to plough some serious cash into the club. We need to establish ourselves as Everton Football Club and from the looks of things having Tesco one of the biggest marketing and selling brands in the UK can't be that bad, if they have monopolised the grocery retailing market who's to say we can't become the biggest football brand and monopolise the football market. I know people talk about other sites with in the city but if we are to pay for it ourselves you only have to look at the clubs I have mentioned and we know what happened to them. The feeling I'm getting is that KEIOC are the same fans that moan when where not spending money on big name players, shouting about being a big club, want to get rid of Moyes when we lose a game. I just hope that Everton Fans look at the whole picture and see all the benefits that will come with the Kirkby move. I don't see KEIOC moan about the new training ground being built in Halewood which is in KNOWSLEY anyway how boss will it be when the shite's players have to go past our new stadium (if it's a yes vote) every day on there way to and from training. Before I go the remember Manchester's most famous club is not in the boundaries of Manchester but Salford. Dibbly (Bellvale). (14/08/07)

Edging Towards Kirkby

I'm kinda edging towards Kirkby, for the following reasons: It's not going to bankrupt us, as far as i am concerned its in liverpool (i live in fazakerley and its a 5 min drive, Maghull (liverpool) is just as long a drive from fazakerley!) goodison is going to be inhabitable soon enough and if we don't start working on new stadium now, we may have no-where to play!

Now with regards to the "bestway site" i think what should happen is, the club should give bradley and co a few weeks to come up with plans, designs, feasibility studies, everything that EFC have given on the Kirkby site, give fans a week to check it over then put the vote to the fans, with Plan B being Bestway! that way we have at least something to compare Kirkby with!

I'm skeptical about this new site proposal and warren bradley even though he's a self proclaimed blue! Why only now have they come up with this site? Why now that the Kirkby proposal is firmly up and running? It going to take something good from Bradley to convince me to say no to kirkby!! The only thing id like with Kirkby proposal is a stadium looking more like the kings dock! though i do like the 4 sides to it, like goodison, but not sure about the gaps in the corners??!! Anna, Fazakerley. (14/08/07)

What's In A Name?

I honestly CANNOT see why anybody would not want Everton to move to Kirkby. The reasons do not hold up. Are people really that bothered about an imaginary line that divides Liverpool CC from Knowsley Borough Council? Do Man Utd fans care that they play in Trafford? More to the point, did anyone even realise that was the case before Everton’s proposed move to Kirkby? Are Stubbs, Carragher, Gerrard, Nolan, Nugent, Barton, McManaman, Thompson, Trundle, etc no longer Scousers because they were raised in Knowsley and / or Sefton?

Kirkby is just 4 miles from Goodison but a lot of people seem to suggest it is an island, miles from Liverpool. Goodison is stuck in the 1970’s and as sad as we’ll be to see it demolished, that’s the only use for it. We cannot rebuild there because of all of the houses, schools, roads, etc and the Kirkby proposal seems financially and logically viable. Just because we’ll be playing in Knowsley does not mean anything has changed. We’ve been playing in Walton and not Everton forever. Carl Arnold. Aigburth. (14/08/07)

I'll Have To Find Another Ale 'ouse

If im honest I don’t want Everton to move, for one reason.. because I'm selfish, I love my match day routine going for a drink down Rice Lane and then onto County Road before going to the game but the move is not about me, its about the future of the Club (the one we all love). Kirkby is an excellent ‘proposal’ (as of the moment that is all it is) a 50,000 seater stadium putting us back where we belong ..and it is only 4 miles from goodison, not a million miles. I can recall a few years ago Everton where looking to move to Speke ( correct me if I’m wrong but that’s even further away. You and I all class Kirkby as Liverpool, just because Warren Bradley doesn’t don’t follow him follow the Blues wherever they go. The move is for the Better of the Club, I can easily find somewhere else to drink before the game. Come on you Blues lets take Europe by storm. Marty. (14/08/07)

Staying will preserve our fanbase, not weaken it.

Having heard many ludicrous arguments for moving from Goodison, I think the one that concerns me the most is that some people have swallowed Wyness’ assertion that to stay at Goodison will mean a drop in support for the Club. I am personally insulted that Wyness chose to suggest this. How dare he question the one aspect of our Club which is still without question world class?

Everton’s support has been consistently one of the best in the country and will remain so as long as we remain with our roots. Anyone who thinks moving the Club away from the majority of its fanbase will increase attendances is in cloud cuckoo land. I personally fear that our support will drop by a third in one generation if we move. We will, after 129 years of endeavour and mixed fortunes, be surrendering the City to Liverpool FC. End of story.

Do you really think anyone at present doesn’t attend Goodison because of the age of stadium? Let’s be blunt, anyone not bothered going to the match now for such tenuous reasons is hardly going to suddenly start attending a new ground – and if they do, how long will such fickle support last? Until September? Until the first rainy midweek match against lowly opposition? The first soul-destroyting defeat to Arsenal Reserves? Such people belong in cinemas or watching football on Sky Sports and that is what they will continue to do, new ground or not.

As for fortunes increasing on the field if we move, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Leicester, Southampton, Derby, Millwall… I could go on – one thing in common – all still crap.

I would implore fellow Evertonians to vote NO to this Kirkby proposal and pressure the Club to vigorously examine all options for dynamically redeveloping Goodison. It has been proven by the private sector that it can be done on the present site so what are the Club waiting for? Eddie Nimmo. (14/08/07)

Why Kirkby?

Having listened to arguments on both sides I would just like to say a few words on the subject.. If Goodison cannot be rebuilt or restructured, I would gladly say yes to a move elswhere..But under the circumstances I believe that the people who own our club and run our club have already decided that the Tesco deal is the best for everyone..and I firmly believe that they will find a way to push it through no matter what.. The Problem I have is Kirkby, Why KIRKBY?

Of all the plots offered in Central Liverpool None have been good enough to even consider...fair enough...But what about Lambeth Rd heading down to Sand Hills, THERE IS ENOUGH ROOM TO BUILD THE NEW GROUND THERE! in fact they have 5 full scale football pitches on their already....its convenient, easy to get to, you could bring the away supporters direct from lime street up to Sand Hills station without them even meeting an Everton fan... Traffic can be easily diverted to the dock road, Commercial Rd, Westminister Rd..Stanley Rd.....You could build a hotel in the ground Tesco`s new super store..Car park facilities, Built in bars, bookies..etc...For Wyness to say their is no plan B is a man looking to make his own job easy...I think he should step down if the Everton Supporters say No..simply because he admitted there is no Plan B..

Also he has put his foot in his mouth by making such statements as : Goodison will have a problem getting its safety certificate next year!!! Duh! Too right you don't have a plan B, because now you may have caused problems for our Club should the vote go against you...he also expects to sell goodison FOR £10 MILLION, he just said it wont get a safety certificate next year, so who will buy it for 10 then pay even more money to knock it down and even more to rebuild on it?

For someone to say we don't have an alternative is someone with a lack of vision....I watched the history of football tonight and one of the people speaking on the program gave an insight from a supporters point of view..he said that supporters are attached to their grounds, Not the team, BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THAT ONE DAY THE TEAM WILL CHANGE, they will move on for more money..better security for themselves and their families...The people in that area feel like their home ground is their castle..and the supporters are the Kings, Working class people who feel they are a part of something the Eatons of this world could not control...

I have no qualms with the people of Kirkby in fact most of them came from Scotland Rd, Not far from where I grew up, Wessy Rd - Great Homer St- Scotty Rd- and the Vally... but as much as I care for them and consider them scousers, I don't want to Visit my Team there....We are scrimping and saving to buy players every year! we get a couple of cast offs and a couple of loan players, and extend a couple of older players contracts each year..What happened to our Motto...Nil Satis Nisi Optimum = Nothing but the best?

In 1933 Everton's Home coming with the cup there was 100,000 people lined up along the roads to see Everton with the Cup, even more with the crowd outside of Saint Gorges Hall, 1966 was a duplicate in the city of Liverpool...When We won the Cup in 1984 240,000 lined the streets, although a lot of reds were amongst us. Everton had sup port... 1995 we had 300,000 line the streets once again...(Reds included) and Wyness now makes a statement saying if we stay at goodison we will get less and less support...? Go figure !

I`m Rambling on a bit I know, But these things need to be discussed with the people who pay those players wages..week in week out..and as such should be given a vote...I have never held a season ticket at goodison, I probably never will, But i have never missed a game since I found out where goodison was..my dad took me to my first game to watch Liverpool...Did`nt like the scallies in the ground so my dad took me to see Everton in the 1969-70 season, Championship at the first visit...Oh what Joy! Am I now to be denied my birthright as a natural born blue? No vote for me and the other 7,000 that turn up each and every home game with cash in my hand? Let me finish by saying this...Stop the vote before it go against us! (either way)

But open discussions with the leaders, owners and shareholders of EFC, Start from new, I wont say no to Kirkby, not until all the possibilities have been debated, discussed and agreed upon by the majority of the supporters...is Kirkby really our only option? I don't think so, but like i said I think some people at EFC have already decided and will continue to scaremonger supporters into believing that we are broke and need someone to buy us a new ground...a contradiction in what lyness said to the press, we only have to put up around £5 million ourselves...thats not much he said...If that's the case why is DM crying like a big soft kid about other teams buying up players on his shopping list..We cannot afford to compete with Spurs, Wigan, Villa, for players over £5 million...Yet we bought Andy Johnson for £8 million, where did that money come from? we borrowed it against the TV rights..he has helped us get back into europe, Now we need more players like him...Lescott, Cahill, Arteta, are all young and need european football..but they cannot be expected to play 60 games in a season..

Howard Kendall used 26 players when he won the league the first time, Champions, Uefa Champions, and Fa Cup Runners up...24 players the next time we won the league...Closeness is all good and well....but we need a decent squad to compete with the Barca`s of this world....2 players a year is not good enough....If Everton do move to Kirkby and continue with their present day policies regarding our team....its there Everton will lose their support...If Everton's board cant be bothered making the effort to build on this present team and help us get back to former glories then I cant be bothered traveling to Kirkby, laying out around £100 a game.. I`LL do like the rest, buy a recliner plug into sky, buy a surround system, and make my own atmosphere, it wont be Goodison but it will be cheaper! and I wont have to travel to Kirkby.... Please don't go to Kirkby! All the best. Richy Styles. (14/08/07)

Kirkby Blue Dilemma

I would like to throw my cap in the ring as a very longstanding born & bred Evertonian and season ticket holder on what now seems to have
become a false dilemma regarding the proposed move of our club's stadium to Kirkby. The Fan email engagement and Board promotions have been extensive and well informed but, unfortunately, the Fan emails appear to have descended of late into bating rather than debating the merits & disbenefits of the Kirkby move and the true feelings and concerns of true blues. The bating is not even marginally entertaining and, to me, serves only to cloud the real issues, produce entrenchments and the classical 'divide-and-rule' situation, relished by corporate hierarchies. I would argue that we should now clarify the fundamental issues for responses from the Board, namely, that we recognise that, legally, the decision is the Everton Board's to take and the Fans only recourse is to threaten to force them out by dissention should the Board act in their own self-interest and also not pay due regard to the outcome of the promised YES/NO Fan Vote. The best the Fans' can do prior to the decision being taken is to present a common front on the fundamental issues it can agree on concerning what is the best choice of stadium venue/site for the long-term future of our club and challenge the Everton Board to present its case for the future vibrancy of our club, substantiate its statements and give reliable & accurate information on the Board's business & investment plans for the next 5 years for the cases of both moving and not moving to Kirkby.

To this end we are informed that the Board strongly favours the Kirkby Stadium move and advocates that there is no Plan B - i.e. there is no viable alternative to ensuring a vibrant future for our club if we do not take this 'once-and-for-all' offer. Such a statement by the Everton Board is significant in a number of respects - Firstly, it suggests the future vibrancy of our club is financial and extremely sensitive to the Kirkby move's additional income stream; secondly, and worryingly, it smacks of Tesco-speak; thirdly, it indicates limitations in the imagination of the Board and the capability, including availability, of the Board members to network, effectively, with the Liverpool City Fathers & Business Leaders to our mutual advantages and, finally, it insults the integrity and intelligence of Everton supporters who have been subjected to this Board's previous many similar hyped false dooms and dawns.

The substantive questions I would suggest the Board addresses unequivocally and substantiate tangibly (with relevant data linked to developmental ambitions) are as follows:
1: Can the Board truly substantiate how the move to Kirkby will increase the Everton fan base over the next 5 years (e.g. creating space is not the same as filling it)?
2: Can the Board substantiate the additional income streams the Kirkby move will generate over its first 3 operating years and what the projected percentage rise in total income to the club would the additional increase be?
3: Has the Board developed comparative Business Plans for the next 5 years, which incorporate all the projected income streams and consequential effects on the club's vibrancy for (i) the move to Kirkby and (ii) should our club stay where we are?
4: Can the Board substantiate that the move to Kirkby will not cause a decrease in the Fan base?
5: What percentage Fan YES vote will the Board deem to the minimum required to support the Board's proposal to move to Kirkby?
6: Will the Board abide by its commitment to the outcome of the Fans' YES/NO vote and, moreover, put in place independent impartial oversight procedures?

I would proffer that if the Board is unable to address, and truly engage the Fans in, these particular issues it should defer the Kirkby move until it has more fully engaged with the Fans and the City Fathers & Business Leaders and/or, accordingly, done its full and proper homework. As failure in any facet is likely to unduly risk jeopardising the long-term future of our club, which in any business setting a Board would be deemed to be taking a major 'not thought through' decision and, in so doing, being culpable of irresponsible Board action. Peter McEwan. (14/08/07)

Everton R.I.P.

There's been loadsa talk this week about whether the shite can fill an 80,000 seater stadium and where will the new fans come from. Piece of piss. Every single newborn scouse male will support the shite as the only club in the great city of liverpool. I can't believe how many sheepshaggers who visit the official website and swallow all the crap about how shiny the new ground will be. I don't give a toss about how shiny it is. It's gonna be a woollyback club. If I was born in ten years time I would be a red. I'm born n bred in liverpool. We are the Farmers Club. I'm embarrassed. Look how big Newcastle are as a 1 city club.....even with no success they're a big club. the shite will be unfuknbelievably massive, the biggest club in Britain. All scousers supporting one club...fukn amazing. Well done bungalow bill....u may have sold your soul to London but some of us are still proud scousers. Everton RIP. Liverpool one club one city...fukn awesome!!!!!!!!!!! From Ste. (14/08/07)

Vote With Your Head

I fully agree with Anthony Bilk. I've supported Everton for 45 years with the last 15 as a season ticket holder. Liverpool City Council seem to have room for only one football club and sadly it isn't us. I have loved Goodison since the first day I saw it. It still makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. Nobody can take away the great memories I have of the old lady. But that's my heart talking. We've lived on promises from all quarters for years but the facts speak for themselves.

We cannot afford a new ground without help from one or other corporation. We will probably never get a chance to build a ground with such a low financial exposure again. The new ground will attract further outside investment and most definitely higher profile players. Our current squad has some great players but for how long? That's my head talking.

Why is everybody so insular. 4 miles or however far it is shouldn't be the issue. Do we want to compete at the top end of the premiership or not. We are not an Americanised sporting franchise. We are not going to change the club name just because we cross some imaginary border that was introduced through political issues. There are probably as many if not more scousers by percentage of population in Kirkby as there are in Liverpool. Whatever your view I respect it. Everybody should vote with your head and sadly not with your heart. DS. (14/08/07)

Yes To Our Home Town

We are all for the move to Kirkby. We live in Kirkby. Everton do NOT owe anything to Liverpool council, because when we tryed to get Stanley park, Liverpool council said no, when Liverpool asked for it they say Yes, so we are saying YES to the move to kirkby. Thanks from Rachel, Sid & Mark. (14/08/07)

Vote Yes

At last, someone talking sense!! I fully agree with Anthony Bilk. We have no option but to move. It is completely irrelevant if Kirkby is outside the city boundary if we stay at Goodison we’re buggered.

I grew up in Kirkby and to suggest the people of Kirkby are not scousers is just outrageous. The KEIOC brigade are letting their hearts rule their heads. My god, I’ve read that so called ‘die hard’ Evertonians are going to boycott going to watch games if we move to Kirkby. Do you know what boys? Move to Norway and start supporting the shite! If the vote is no and there is no plan B, how are we going to feel in 2010 when the shite move to a brand new ground on our doorstep? If we don’t move I think it will lead to the decline of our great club. Vote YES or else… Colin Drury. (14/08/07)

Nothing Satisfies but The Best or Nothing Satisfies but the cheapest?

Question 1: What is wrong with Goodison Park?
Currently, the old lady has a few issues. Namely she’s in need of updating, and there are 16,000 obstructed views. But why is this suddenly an issue now? Is having an obstructed view such a bad thing when watching us? Ok seriously, Goodison is slightly creaking, but the negatives have been badly over hyped and blown out of all proportion. Is it really that bad on match day? Is standing outside The Spellow or Winslow and waiting for a pint of Chang once inside, so tedious and discomforting that a move is such a priority? Was any Evertonian during the end of season games against Pompey last season, or the 2-0 win over Newcastle a few season ago, in the slightest bit upset by the surroundings those atmospheres existed in?? Were fans joyous to a point but tinged with some level of dissatisfaction due to the ground we were celebrating in? Of course not. Goodison Park provides us with everything we need on match day. She is far from being an embarrassment, and has a history of top flight football no ground on the planet can come close to. Let’s up sticks and leave it all behind because football is going through a momentary but ultimately unsustainable period of rapid economic growth. Treason I say. We were here for a long time before the likes of Tesco and the premier league inflation driven game of today… and we will be around for a lot longer after too if we don’t haemorrhage ourselves on an unnecessary ground move. Leave the history of Goodison for Kings Dock would be hard. Very hard. Unacceptable but regrettably understandable. To move to a supermarket driven complex in Kirkby? Why are some fans in favour of this?

Question 2: What can a move facilitate, that redeveloping Goodison cannot?
Nothing. Goodison can be redeveloped. There will be loss of revenue in the seasons of rebuild, but this is not as great as the cost of a new stadium. Wyness says Kirkby will cost £150m. Tesco’s will throw in £50m so that’s £100m for us to find. Wyness admits this will be borrowed against the new stadium itself! Debt and a plastic stadium. Crazy idea.

Question 3: Can Goodison be redeveloped?
Yes. Why on earth can’t it? It’s footprint is of similar size to that of Old Trafford (I’ve read). Finally LCC seem to want us to stay, so let’s open talks about redevelopment on the current site and any additional land that is required. There are also feasibility studies to redevelop without the need for surrounding land to be acquired. Wyness calls this undeliverable. So make it deliverable, that’s the job of a CEO. I know, use the £100m you’ll find to fund Kirkby to deliver a Goodison redevelopment.

Question 4: What are the major advantages of a move?
We will earn £10m a year extra in ticket sales. Really? 1. This is based on us selling out each game, something that doesn’t happen at Goodison. We may be near to capacity every game, but only ever totally full for the big matches. When Wigan, Boro, Bolton, Pompey and the other charlatan minnow clubs come visiting when we have 55,000 seats, and we are sitting pretty as mid table mediocrity, will we really get 55,000 tickets sold at £35 - £40 a shot? I’m not saying we have a fickle support, not at all. We have the most loyal support in the league. We turn up in our droves no matter what the current squad are able to do. We follow the club not the individuals. So why should we prioritise a mega bucks stadium move over serious and sustained investment in the playing side of the club? 2. What advantage is £10m a season worth? It wouldn’t even buy Biffa and Kroldrup. For that, you need £11m.

Question 5: What are the disadvantages?
We lose everything. The atmosphere of Goodison, the history that is a part of every brick in the old ground. We become a club like Boro or Bolton with a plastic ground with a retailers name with all the history and tradition of a Tesco’s store. We do get a load of corporate hospitality and prawn sandwiches, so it’s not all doom and gloom. Plus if we are losing and you wanna nip away before the end, you can pick up your groceries from the new tesco store on site. Am I crazy, or does this fill anyone else with dread?

Question 6: Who are we trusting?
The big question. Whose word are we listening to? Ultimately its Kenwright. Does anyone really trust Bill Kenwright? His popularity during his stewardship of the club dwindled steadily to an all time and rightful low at the start of the 2004/5 season and our 1-4 humbling to the arse. He had just overseen the last minute sale of Rooney to man ure. Not only did he openly facilitate this deal, the club got less than half his reputed value, and all of that was in installments. Plus the deal was done on the last day of the transfer window so we couldn’t go out and use it. Disgrace. Look at the way Steve Bruce and Bham City treated Robbie Savage when he wanted to leave. He was thrown in reserves and not sold until the price the club wanted was met. Kenwright did the exact opposite and went out his way to make the deal go through. What he should have done was stick his phone on answer machine and go on holiday for that last day of the transfer market. Rooney would be allowed to leave, but on our terms. Kenwright just weeks before had boasted Rooney was worth not a penny under £50m following his exploits at Euro 2004. So Rooney is for sale, Kenwright should say, £50m in one lump sum, or no sale. Rooney would get used to reserves in no time. When his attitude adjusted he would be back into the first team, and if any club came in for him on our terms, no one has the right to argue that he cannot leave. Did Kenwright do this? Did he do anything remotely like this? Did he make sure Man Ure got the best deal possible - or Everton? They bought a 17 year old with at least 15 years of making and scoring goals for a little over £20m. Now that’s the deal of the century. I wouldn’t buy a loaf of bread from Kenwright, let alone trust him to run our club. However, due to the relative (and trophy less) success of the last few seasons, all seems to be forgotten about Kenwright. Notice though, whenever we are doing badly, the man cannot be found. When we are flying high and in Europe, all we hear are sound bites from him. Either keep quiet or answer the tough questions Mr Kenwright, rather than this fair-weather Chairman we seem to have.

Question 7: Why is a stadium move higher priority to delivering success on the field?
Apparently because the move can facilitate through the extra £10m a season, better conditions on the field. Let’s say the stadium is ready in 5 years time. Adding to the points made in answer to question 4, how far will £10m a year go in 5 years time with the runaway transfer prices we see today? Well you can work it out. How different are prices today compared to 2002. How much would a player of Jagielka’s ability and experience be worth back then? £1m maybe? Today’s cost, £4m. Moyes has a transfer kitty of £10m this pre season and is on record to say how hard it is to get value for money for such an amount. £10m a season is not a high enough price to lose 115 years of history at Goodison.

Question 8: Will we fill a 55,000 stadium with the current prices and current massive underachievement?
Will Kirkby have any affect whatsoever on attendance levels? Admittedly at first yes, every fan will want to experience the new home, but one or two seasons in? When we are struggling to find the appropriate talent with that extra £10m a season because half of the rest of the league have big bucks owners splashing out in their own ‘doing one over the other’ style market place, will our squad improve? The main attractions to Everton are our fantastic and loyal support, our history, tradition ethos and culture of the club. That ethos and culture and tradition and history is absorbed into every brick that builds Goodison. She is a part of Everton. And in 25 years time, when she truly is in need of massive redevelopment, I’ll still be happy to watch Everton there. I’ll still feel a shiver when I see her rise out of the urban landscape… when I see those high sides rise above the houses she dominates. I don’t want to think about Everton belonging to a plastic new branded stadium next to a massive Tescos development outside of the city. There are only a few places on this planet that I feel at home at… that I know I belong… and Goodison is one of them. Please don’t take my Goodison away. Mr Wyness, my heart is not ruling my head here. My head and heart are in total agreement. Moving from Goodison makes no viable sense.

Question 9: If money was no option, would a move be on the table?
I seriously doubt it. If we had a sugar daddy buy us out and wanted to get capacity up to 55,000, then I think that would happen at Goodison. The only reason Kirkby is an option is because it’s not going to cost us the same as a Kings Dock style development would. If money was no object, then Kings Dock or redeveloping Goodison would be the options. So just because, right at this point in history, we don’t have the funds available, let’s just bide our time until we do. And if we don’t have the funds, then let’s stay at Goodison. Kirkby is not going to magically change our fortunes and turn us into League Champions.

It’s unfathomable to me that the subject is on the table. To stay or to leave Goodison Park? It’s a no brainer. The debate has rolled on for long enough, so I hope, hope, that those supporters able to vote, do so with the morale fibre of the club in mind. As I live in Bham, I’ve never held a season ticket, and don’t have a vote. I attend Goodison as often as I can afford, and go to as many away games as I can. I live breath and defend our club every day. I understand and accept I cannot vote on this issue, due to not being a season ticket holder, but my love and devotion to our club is no less then any other blue. So those able to vote, understand what you are trading Goodison for. Not a Kings Dock, but a supermarket development scheme which we will be bolted onto, away from the suburbs of Everton and Anfield where we have existed since the 1870’s. Let’s leave it all for a supermarket created in 1924 by a cockney. Its madness to even suggest it. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. Nothing satisfies but the best. If Kings Dock or redeveloping Goodison is better than Kirkby, then the code of our club prevents us from accepting Kirkby. We literally have no choice. We stay at Goodison. Joe Ludden. (14/08/07)

Be Careful What You Wish For

Yesterday, I had a view of a possible future. I was driving from Warwickshire to Warrington, and ended up driving through Coventry city centre. After a few circuits of the ring road, I headed for the motorway, and passed the Ricoh Arena.

All the road signs pointed to the Ricoh Arena. When I got there I knew what it was because it had 20 foot high red letters saying RICOH, then just above that was another sign saying 'Jewson Stand', then on the opposite side there was another sign saying 'Jaguar Exhibition Centre'. On one side of the complex there was another sign in aluminium letters saying 'Ricoh Arena', then on the other side of the complex was the Arena Retail Park, with all those football orientated businesses like Curry's, GAP and Mothercare World. The complex was within sight of the motorway, but out of sight of the City. Then I noticed this really strange logo or advert, I couldn't identify it, it said Coventry City. Must be a burger chain I thought.

So in the frenzied rush to get sponsorship and money, the club has practically been erased from existence. Not so much, 'This way to the School of Science', more, this way to the checkout. Keith Martin. (14/08/07)

A Hollow Feeling

Despite this contribution I have not yet fully convinced myself either way on the ground move even though I think I voted no on one of the sites that is asking the question but I have just had a horrible sinking feeling that made me feel empty and alone....what will happen to us if we vote no to the move? My sinking feeling was one of isolation, abandonment and a feeling of being adrift in the current football world of new stadiums and modernism etc and even further behind LFC in the overall scheme of things. We will be seen as ....well I don't know what we will be seen as but we wont have a second chance as there is no knight in shining armour fighting our corner. What will I feel like if those with a vote, and I am not one of them, decide on my behalf, that we will not move to Kirkby.

Perhaps that is something the fortunate few should consider on my behalf, and on many others behalf, as I / we do not have a vote as we apparently don't count as a Blue and have no way of playing a part in our future. I just feel that we, EFC, will drift into the margins of football and become an also ran in the annals of football history, a club that imploded on itself because it failed to move forward. Those with a vote should project themselves forward to the day a NO result is proclaimed. How will you feel, will you feel that you have helped or hindered EFC. Will there be a feeling of success, of accomplishment or will you have the same sinking feeing of abandonment that I felt this morning. Regards. Colin Kirby. (14/08/07)

Yes

It seems people are mostly worried about getting skitted by Liverpool fans for being out of the city limits. That’s gonna happen anyway when they start winning things while we stay mid –table. Face facts- it’s not our game anymore, the money men have taken it off us, success has to be bought. I watched the Bayern Munich game last week – a team built through craft and clever transfers. Those days are sadly gone. I don’t want to move either but can only see the gap between us and them widening unless millions pour in. To get a ground for little outlay will mean we can at last build a team to compete rather than survive. Have a look at the echo pictures of the kids in school celebrating the city’s birthday. Everton shirts are outnumbered 10- to- 1. We are already on the slide! The next 5 years are crucial – we need money asap and goodison won’t give us that. We’re losing out to Wigan in the transfer market. Watch Man City buy a team. How long till Leeds, Sheff Wed etc get foreign buyers. I don’t see we have a choice. Tonyp (14/08/07)

Everton Are The Team To Follow...To Kirkby

I presume those that wanted David Moyes out last season are the same bitter, thick dinosaurs that want Bill Kenwright out now. The fact is Everton Football Club is in its strongest position both on and off the field since the so-called glory days- 20 years ago!! Yes the idea of some foreigner investing £300 million sounds brilliant, but don't you think their has to be one big massive catch? So as things stand Kenwright has the best interests of the club at heart, which means moving to a bigger and better stadium. As the song goes 'Everton are the team to follow', well 100 yards outside the city boundary and 10 minutes on the train from kirkdale isn't exactly far. I seriously believe the main worry for some of these bitter fans is the names the shite might call them!! These people need to grow up, appreciate the progress we are making and get behind the club for a change instead of always moaning and criticising. Alan Moffatt. (14/08/07)

Yes To British

For the benefit of the KEIOC supporters I would like to give my slant on the advantages of a ground move under the present financial terms being offered. Of all the teams presently enjoying the cash injections of their benefactors, how many of them will deliver on the silverware/euro qualification demanded by their benefactors, and at what price?

Man U top the league with over £700 million, Liverpool and Arsenal over £300 million debts, followed by Spurs, West Ham, even the smaller clubs like Wigan, Sunderland and Derby are trying to buy anything that moves to stave off relegation!! At what cost? So when an offer like Tesco's comes along, it should be given full consideration. Forget the paranoia being created by that lot across the park. I first went to Goodison in 1947 at the age of eight and have seen for myself the deterioration that is obvious compared to the more modern stadia. It's muted that the new stadium will compare favourably to that of Cologne, and that is a great stadium. At present we have a very capable manager, who does buy quality given the financial constraints and has now the nucleus of a promising, youngish squad. So if we, as a club go down the road of borrowing 'big bucks' to finance a ground in the city I can see us selling our quality players just to pay off the interest a substantial loan would incur. Liverpool have already agreed to sell their naming rights Loyalty goes out the window when the big banks come calling!!

So to summarise, we have an offer from a British company, nearly as big as Wallmart,with more money than any of the Yanks on our soil, willing to finance a stadium, four miles down the road, a good team in the making and all this with minimal debts, enabling us to keep our present squad and releasing more funds to improve it further. My advice to KEIOC supporters is to let the head rule the heart in this case,a successful team, first and foremost, in a modern stadium will bring its own rewards!! .......end of. Manc Blue. (14/08/07)

Vote Yes

Right chaps. Lets look at it pragmatically. The ground we have graced for years is sentimental, as we all know sentiment can not be replaced .We have all lost a loved .one...true. the old girl is no different. Liverpool CC come begging at the 9th hour and plead innocence again. Warren Bradley openly admits he will not let a piece of land go for the sake of the tax payer at 50 million. Everton have looked at 2 of the previous sites , LCC HAVE APPROACHED BESTWAY AS A SMOKE SCREEN TO TRY AND SALVAGE THE SITUATION. Goodison could be redeveloped but lets be honest ,, it will always be lagging behind . So look back and thank Mr Johnson & Co for putting the club in this position due to massive over borrowing and misrepresentation. Look at the 20 million we spent and how much we recouped . And then there was the borrowed money blue Bill had to pay back. So If you want an Everton that is like Forest ,Leeds, Notts County vote to stay. Or be visionary and realise Liverpool is bigger than L4 . We would be the biggest business to leave this city ,,,yes business. Let Liverpool City Council look at their own C.V then. It would not look good. But another council embrace us. Championship or Prem. That's the vote. James. (14/08/07)

Say Yes To Kirkby

I'd like to add my thanks to Anthony Bilk (26/07/07), for putting a reasoned argument as opposed to the usual abusive anywhere but Kirkby lot. I'm surprised at the amount of comment on this site that seems to be of the view that if you're from outside Liverpool City boundaries your not a blue. I'm from Bootle, as are thousands of other blues season ticket holders, are we to believe we aren't welcome? Kirkby at present is the only viable argument; redevelop Goodison, NO MONEY. Build on another site in Liverpool, NO MONEY, NO LAND, NO SUPPORT! I'm disappointed with the simplicity of the proposed ballot question, it should read, move to Kirkby at no cost by 2010, vote Yes; or double the price of tickets to raise finance for an eventual redevelopment or do nothing and pray for a sugar daddy to drag us out of the Championship where we will be by 2010, vote No, I want to bury my head in the sand! One final thing, you don't have to show a passport to get into Kirkby, so criminal convictions will stay hidden, even those for worrying sheep. Alan Wynne. (14/08/07)

Vote Yes

Well fellow Blues the time to decide has finally arrived, do we – don’t we – should we – shouldn’t we. Let the talking end and let us do what is right for the Mighty Blues to progress and compete with the so called big 4. Put your trust in Blue Bill and vote with your HEADS and not your HEARTS the move to Kirkby is the only financially viable option! Try telling the people of Kirkby they are not from Liverpool or Scousers! Mike - Lower Gwladys Street. (09/08/07)

If in Doubt....say NO!

I’ve not always entirely agreed with some of Ian’s views in the past but must congratulate him for putting together a brilliantly well researched and crafted masterpiece. He has put his finger on the REAL issue…….money, or in fact, the extreme lack of it. Bill needs to accept the fact that to play with the “Big” boys you need the backing of someone with a billion, not a million. His time would be better spent in finding a suitor of this ilk rather than run the risk of completely alienating himself from thousands of his “beloved” Evertonians in even contemplating a move to Kirby. Why Kirby? Because it’s free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh my God, have we really stooped that low??

Having worked in the corporate world for many years when presenting a literally ground-breaking plan by not having a Plan “B” would be akin to writing your own P45 – Board take note!! When the dust finally settles on this debacle a vote of no confidence in the Board would not go amiss!! Our motto “Nil Satis Nisi Optimum” means “Nothing but the best will do” and not any crap will do. How dare you Bill!! COYB. Birkdale Blue. (09/08/07)

I Voted Yes

I have listened to and read the arguments for and against the ground move and have returned my ballot voting "Yes". I respect the views of other Evertonians who are in the "No" camp, but I think that the move to Kirkby is the future of Everton. Trust the board and the package put together by the professionals, including Sir Terence Leahy - a Blue. It is a good deal and one that gives us the potential to move this project on speedily, other clubs have done this already - many of whom cannot touch Everton in terms of profile. Darwin once said, "It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change". Do not let Everton fall behind in this fast paced world of football. Vote "Yes" or in five years time we will regret not having seized this moment.

MBE

Verbose and pretentious and factually inaccurate in one important point. The architect who redesigned the Holte End at Villa Park (executed over one summer) has said that Goodison is capable of being modernised. Mike Weir. (09/08/07)

Kirkby Blue Dilemma

I would like to throw my cap in the ring as a very longstanding born & bred Evertonian and season ticket holder on what now seems to have become a false dilemma regarding the proposed move of our club's stadium to Kirkby. The Fan email engagement and Board promotions have been extensive and well informed but, unfortunately, the Fan emails appear to have descended of late into baiting rather than debating the merits & disbenefits of the Kirkby move and the true feelings and concerns of true blues. The baiting is not even marginally entertaining and, to me, serves only to cloud the real issues, produce entrenchments and the classical 'divide-and-rule' situation, relished by corporate hierarchies. I would argue that we should now clarify the fundamental issues for responses from the Board, namely, that we recognise that, legally, the decision is the Everton Board's to take and the Fans only recourse is to threaten to force them out by dissention should the Board act in their own self-interest and also not pay due regard to the outcome of the promised YES/NO Fan Vote. The best the Fans' can do prior to the decision being taken is to present a common front on the fundamental issues it can agree on concerning what is the best choice of stadium venue/site/construction for the long-term future of our club and challenge the Everton Board to present its case for the future vibrancy of our club, substantiate its statements and give reliable & accurate information on the Board's business & investment plans for the next 5 years to trusted representatives for the cases of both moving and not moving to Kirkby.

The current situation is that the Board strongly favours the Kirkby Stadium move and advocates that there is no Plan B - i.e. there is no viable alternative to ensuring a vibrant future for our club if we do not take this 'once-and-for-all' offer. Such a statement by the Everton Board is significant in a number of respects - Firstly, it suggests the future vibrancy of our club is, primarily, financial and, moreover, extremely sensitive to the Kirkby move's additional income stream; secondly, and worryingly, it smacks of Tesco-speak; thirdly, it indicates limitations in the imagination of the Board and the capability, including availability, of the Board members to network, effectively, with the Liverpool City Fathers & Business Leaders to our mutual advantages and, finally, it insults the integrity and intelligence of Everton supporters who have been subjected to this Board's previous many similar hyped false dooms and dawns.

The substantive questions I would suggest the Board addresses unequivocally and substantiates tangibly (with relevant data linked to developmental ambitions) to the satisfaction of trusted Fan representatives are as follows:

1: Can the Board truly substantiate how the move to Kirkby will increase the Everton fan base over the next 5 years (e.g. creating space is not
the same as filling it)?
2: Can the Board substantiate the additional income streams the Kirkby move will generate over its first 3 operating years and what the projected percentage rise in total income to the club would the additional increase be?
3: Has the Board developed comparative Business Plans for the next 5 years, which incorporate all the projected income streams and consequential effects on the club's vibrancy for (i) the move to Kirkby and (ii) should our club stay where we are?
4: Can the Board substantiate that the move to Kirkby will not cause a decrease in the Fan base?
5: What percentage Fan YES vote will the Board deem to be the absolute minimum number required to support the Board's proposal to move to
Kirkby?
6: Will the Board abide by its commitment to the outcome of the Fans' YES/NO vote and, moreover, put in place independent impartial oversight procedures?

I would proffer that if the Board is unable to address, and truly engage the Fans' trusted representatives in, these particular issues it should defer the Kirkby move until it has more fully engaged with the Fans and the City Fathers & Business Leaders and/or, accordingly, done its full and proper homework. As failure in any facet is likely to unduly risk jeopardising the long-term future of our club, which in any business setting a Board would be deemed to be taking a major 'not thought through' decision and, in so doing, would be culpable of irresponsible Board action. Pmsquared, (Original email 29/07/07) (09/08/07)

Mickey Blue Eyes Stadium Mania 3

That was the best article I have read regarding the entire stadium move debate. I just had to write and tell you guys that. I hope that Everton itself and maybe the Echo would be smart enough to ask to display that article or at least post a link to it, because I feel that anyone who is going to vote should give it a read. Well done. David Barks. (09/08/07)

I Love Everton FC

Ask yourself this do you support EVERTON F.C. I never thought I would here the day when so called EVERTON fans would use this debate to show there true colours. I will watch EVERTON ANYTIME ANY PLACE ANYWHERE if its a yes vote in kirkby if not then wherever so lets see what the outcome of the vote is because we have the power, nobody can say this is not the peoples vote. If you don't go all the time and ain't got a vote then trust in the rest of us. The redshite will be in £590 million debt when there stadium is built and not a vote in site so remember we do not choose we are chosen and we the people will decide our future. Robbie Quinn. (09/08/07)

Family Voting

Our voting papers turned up today, for me and the lad (13). "Danny, your voting slip is here, son"

"Thanks Dad, just put me down for a No." "Why son?" "Dunno, but everyone seems to be saying No, so I want to."

"But, son, you should make your own mind up."

"I know but I can't be bothered, in fact Dad, you just vote for me"

"But..."

"I'm off out Dad, see ya later"

Apathy? Can't be arsed about the Blues? Who knows, but I've filled his slip in anyway, and the vote is one Yes and one No, and guess what? We didn't abuse each other, we didn't threaten each other, we never even said that we were abandoning our children (Huh?) or grandchildren come to that. We just respected each other's opinions.

It's a pity some others on this site can't do the same. "Goodnight, son...still love ya... x"
(Love you too Dad xx). Blue Dad. (09/08/07)

We Are Unique Lets Stay That Way

'We don't do that here lad. This is Everton. We're different'. If that could be translated into Latin, that would probably be more appropriate than our present motto. Anyone who's watched Everton through the Lee, Walker and Smith era's will know that 'only the best being good enough' was more of a joke than a motto. If not always the best though, Everton have always been different. We have regularly been the first and often been unique. From under-soil heating to three tier stands and from numbers on the back of shirts to hosting cup finals - this club has always set the pace. And so have the fans. Sometimes rightly. Sometimes wrongly. Where others wear replicas we wear 'clothes'. Some jump on bandwagons; we jump on pitches. And as fans cheer their heroes, we boo our slackers. We do what we feel is right - right for 'us', Evertonians - and not what is happening or happened elsewhere.

So here we are again - the club once again being unique - and offering pretty much every regular match-goer the option of moving. Moving to Kirkby. A fine gesture, and a gesture to place the onus well and truly in the fans' court. So what do we do - well, that's up to Evertonians as ever - but let's remember what and who we are. Over the last generation we may have lost players, managers, trophies and even some supporters but we have always kept our identity - our identity as a club and as a supporter. Ask yourself the question…would we still have that identity if we moved to a new stadium in Kirkby? It may bring us some new players, trophies and even some new supporters but would the club you follow have lost their very thing that made you love it in the first place?

We are not Coventry, Arsenal, Liverpool or Manchester City. Clubs have moved. Clubs have stayed and the overriding reason why EVERY club has chosen one way or the other has always been money. It was either cheaper to stay or they would get more money to move? Simple as that. So being unique, for the first time ever that decision is not being taken by executives, accountants and businessman but by joiners, plumbers and salesman. Us, not them. So let's be unique then - let's not follow the dollar; let's stay and fight; look for better alternatives; promote our identity and stay in a city that is truly thriving rather than move to a town that isn't.

There are many business reasons on either side for staying, going or moving to Costa Del Loop but remember we are Evertonians - a group of lads and girls who follow Everton Football Club. Choose whichever way you choose to go, but do it as a fan, an Evertonian, and not as an accountant. 'You see lad. This is why we love it here. It's unique' Love Everton. Hate Football. Mooncat. (09/08/07)

But another council embrace us

Right chaps. Lets look at it pragmatically. The ground we have graced for years is sentimental , as we all know sentiment can not be replaced. We have all lost a loved. one...true. the old girl is no different. Liverpool CC come begging at the 9th hour and plead innocence again. Warren Bradley openly admits he will not let a piece of land go for the sake of the tax payer at 50 million. Everton have looked at 2 of the previous sites , LCC HAVE APPROACHED BESTWAY AS A SMOKE SCREEN TO TRY AND SALVAGE THE SITUATION. Goodison could be redeveloped but lets be honest ,, it will always be lagging behind. So look back and thank Mr Johnson & Co for putting the club in this position due to massive over borrowing and misrepresentation. Look at the 20 million we spent and how much we recouped. And then there was the borrowed money blue Bill had to pay back So If you want an Everton that is like Forest, Leeds, Notts County vote to stay. Or be visionary and realise Liverpool is bigger than L4 . We would be the biggest business to leave this city, yes business. Let Liverpool City Council look at their own C.V. then. It would not look good. But another council embrace us. Championship or Prem. That's the vote. James. (09/08/07)

We just have to move.

Passion and emotion aside it’s time for Everton to move on. Some would say that moving on is staying at Goodison but the facts have been made very clear to us. One of the best things this club has going or it is its fan base and that will be made on the park and in the stadium. Just look back to the dark days when the team was makeshift, the manager inept and the average gate 26’000 (92,93) Currently we have a team to build on, A manager to believe in and a 36’000 average gate. Lets be realistic and get behind the club. The next level may not be top four but if we build now then long term there is no reason why not. Peter Norrey. (09/08/07)

Yes To Kirkby

If we don't move now we will never move. You tell me where we are going to go if you don't want to move out the city. Plus half the people in kirkby/knowsley call them selves scouse any way and the new training complex isn't exactly bang in the middle of the city its in halewood which is next to halebank which is in widnes so am rather confused why the so called everton fans are complaining about a new stadium n a money boost . goodison is brilliant n i love the place but change is good plus alot of my red shite mates call it the stadium of beams and they are true really , so whats it going to be then ? if we move your going to stop coming to watch the blues rise to the top or going to sit at home n catch the game on match of they day and maybe come a redshite if your so bothered about the city. love blue4life( even if we're not in the city). Neal. (09/08/07)

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