JUL
27
2011
Blame The Fans Not Kenwright
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Missed Chance No 1
Missed Chance No 2
More Fans E-Mails
So its doom and gloom time again at Everton. Another transfer window looks like passing us by, our big hope for the summer Charles N'Zogbia has signed for Villa, and Moyesy is once again talking up the kids and more disturbingly Victor Anichebe.
How different this could have all been, if it wasn't for a few campaign groups and the decision from some committee in Westminster.
A few years ago we as a club missed the boat when we could have had an iconic stadium on the waterfront. For whatever reason, and I believe it to be a £30m input from the club (I may be wrong on that), the stadium dream was gone forever.
Or was it, as we had another chance for a new ground as along come a world renowned company, albeit a grocery chain called Tesco headed by a diehard Blue, and top businessman Sir Terry Leahy. He promised to build us a Stadium a stone's throw from the City of Liverpool's boundary over in that 'woolyback' area full of non Scouser's called Kirkby all for next to nothing.
The stadium would have been on a 999 year lease, and would have been built with a minimal cash input from Everton. It would have been a stadium where Evertonians could have sat in comfort, instead of dodging the pillars at our beloved Goodison Park. The new stadium could have been put out to tender for the naming rights to maximise the cash revenue into the club, aka Emirates, JJB, Ricoh Arena etc etc.
Now let's picture the scene that we had got that Stadium. We would have been a Premiership club with admittedly still around £50m worth of debts, which in Premiership talk is next to nothing. Remember our beloved neighbours over Stanley Park were within an hour of going out of business for debts seven or eight fold of that amount. United owe £700m, and god forbid what City and Chelsea's debt mountain is to their benefactors. So fifty odd million was our pile, but now we do not have a crumbling stadium but a brand spanking new ground to play with.
The difference in our new world is that we would have had investors queuing up to buy Everton FC. Now with the new ground, the cash price would have still roughly been the same for the club, but any new owner would not have to even think about putting his hand in his pocket or like Liverpool putting their club into hundreds of millions of debt as Mr Leahy and Tesco have now built us our ground for generations to come and enjoy.
Every summer would not have been who we would have liked to buy, but it would have been who we seriously could buy, but thanks to the protest groups, and the stupidity of the propaganda of moving three miles up the road, Everton Football Club are destined to live from hand to mouth for many many years to come.
I hope I am wrong with that last statement, but would you part with £450m plus to buy a club, build a new ground and give Moyesy a few bob to build a team, unfortunately for us the Sheiks of this world, like the oil in the ground are running dry year by year.
Blaming Kenwright is easy, yes the man has his faults, but I believe certain factions of Everton fans have not helped our situation in their misguided belief that by moving a few hundred yards out of the City boundaries would have had a detrimental effect on the club.
It is great coming up with ideas, drawings and alike for new grounds, but we need one thing to build it with and it is hard cash, something at the moment that in life is in short supply.
Oh it could have been oh so different.
Chris Aldridge
Email Bluekipper at mailbag@bluekipper.com
Comments about Blame The Fans Not Kenwright
86
We are a top 7 club. We have spent over the last 3 years. It's the likes of Sunderland, Fulham, Villa etc that have to catch us!
It's not all doom and gloom. To me it's sensible business management.
Be patient..............Our time will come for a new ground and other signings!
85
About time someone said it like it is. We have to face the facts there is no billionaire Evertonian out there so we just need a billionaire who wants to buy a premiership club with potential. Now you could say all premiership clubs have potential. You only have to look how quickly City have become serious contenders for honours. So if all clubs have potential and you are a billionaire, where do you put your money? Do you go to the club which always has opposition from its fans or do you go somewhere that welcomes your investment? Think about it and then maybe you will have the answer.
84
I don't care where we play so long as it's on Merseyside on the Liverpool side of the Mersey. I support the club, not some piece of ground. The fans groups didn't help or stop either of the stadium projects. The first one at Kings Dock didn't go because Gregg wanted to own everything for ten years minimum and the second one went down because of political protests by adjoining Labour councils, and the minister didn't want to upset them. Planning regulations and KEIOC had nothing to do with it, whatever anyone thinks or what rumours say.
83
What is all this ranting on about the Kirkby stadium deal never materialising and it not being IN THE BOUNDRIES OF LIVERPOOL? so f£££ing what!!! I dont care if the ground stays at Goodison goes to Kirkby, goes to wherever!! Would we all stop supporting Everton because of a Move?? NO. The only thing we can do is keep supporting them get behind them next season and go with the flow so to speak!! No point slagging The Board off for failing in this and that, I think if they could sell and to the right people they would and that should be respected!!
82
When we were going for the Kings Dock we had the Keep Everton at Goodison brigade. When we were going for Kirkby we had the KEIOC brigade. If we were to move to a new location in Liverpool the Keep Everton at Goodison brigade will be back. It's the same group of arseholes that are stopping us from moving forward.
81
Lets focus on the present. The past is gone and we must move on. Each of us has an opinion - myself I never believe anything that comes out from the club. Call me ultra sceptical but that's the way it is. Sad that talking about failed ground moves causes so much antagonism. How realistic where they; we'll never know. I'll eat my words one day and a new era will beckon ..but perhaps not. Stick together, it is not all doom and gloom. Life is good , EFC is a great club, great fans but where we are is because we have not got no money. No rich backers and so we cant do what we once could do many moons ago...
80
One of the worst articles ever to have been given a hallowed rectangle on the main page of bluekipper. I can never and would never blame the fans for having their opinions and, what they believed, were the best interests of the club at heart. Sadly, Everton are not high-fliers in the Premiership at the moment and so one of our biggest selling points is our history. Their movement was one set to preserve that. What is more, the fact that KEIOC existed should have signaled to those behind the scenes at the club that Plan B is ALWAYS needed. How does that old saying go, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket"?
What is more, Everton fans, and indeed the most vocal lobbyists against the Kirkby move, KEIOC were not the main reason for the failure of the plan. The biggest, and most significant opposition came from Kirkby...It's not like the people of the town itself were bending over backwards to welcome the gold-paving of their streets that would come with Everton's proposed move there. They didn't want it, we didn't want it, so why go ahead with it!?
I also disagree with your painting of Terry Leahy as some kind of blue-tinted saviour! If he was, and indeed is, so concerned with the fate of his beloved blues why does he not put his money where his mouth is!? Could it be that the Kirkby move was one whereby his true love, Tesco, would have gained the most benefit? Let's face it, having a stadium capable of seating 50,000 individuals just a stone's throw from a supermarket is sure to generate a lot of business. Bill Kenwright may not be perfect, but at least he has enough bottle to do the job of chairman, and face the criticism of the fanbase when the club is going through hard times. Leahy does little more than keep an eye out for our results on Sky Sports while enjoying a handsome salary and yet continues to get seen in a favourable light by individuals such as yourself who think the Kirkby plan was in some way a selfless and charitable act on his part.
And as for the idea that the Kirkby plan would have in some way made the worlds billionaires stand up and throw their wallets at us; that is pure conjecture and, personally, I don't feel the club would be any more, or less an investment than it is now. The reason we are so unattractive an investment is because BK doesn't want to hawk us off to the first bidder who writes us a blank cheque and, frankly, I am glad of it. So long as he continues to work his buttocks off ensuring Moyes remains at the helm and we retain as many of our talents as possible, he can take as long as he likes because, believe it or not, the grass is not always greener. There are many excellent examples about at the moment to prove that investors are not always saviours, and I would rather we struggle for a decade to get the right man's money behind us.
Whether you supported the Kirkby move, or not, is irrelevant. The fact is you had the club's best interests at heart and will always support the blues. The supporters buy the tickets and the merchandise that keep the club where it is. If the club is living only within it's means then I think we should be proud to be a club that has, for a fair few years now, been within the top 1/3 of clubs in the premier league.
79
Gedi, the Kopite council tried to helped us out by extending the deadline, so we could try and come up with the money.
After we fucked them about ( The money is ringfenced ) can anyone blame them
for being slightly pissed - off ?
78
Whilst I agree with some of the points raised in this article - the don't blame Kenwright bit? No, sorry - there are lesser clubs with more debt who have not had any trouble finding buyers. Something is wrong.
Bill's demands of wanting to stay Chairman is going to put off any potential investor. Imagine if you are going to put up in excess of 400m to buy and invest in the club and you're still not in charge of the board....you're not exactly going to be keen to invest are you.
77
If it is true with regards to Bill Kenwright putting himself first and not selling the club unless it is a true blue, then I have to say that I agree with you James. He should put the club first and if a buyer should become interested and wants the club to have more success and if a buyer shares our vision of the future for Everton FC, then I don't see the problem in selling the club to an investor. Goodison Park has seen many great matches in the past as well as many great legends who have played for Everton, but realistically the stadium is getting old and now is the right time when we do need to move to a new stadium. But however, if we do not soon get a new investor then I don't really know if that can still happen somehow, but also I can't really see us going on like we are, with regards to no money to spend to build up the team. Loans are all good and well, if at the end of the season a permanent deal can be made, but if it can't then that player leaves the club and then its starting again and finding someone else, if loan deals is all we can possibly do. We cannot go on like this for much longer, I mean I hope it doesn't come to a stage that in order to build up the team further, that we would have to sell one of our best players and that really would be unthinkable and I hope it doesn't come to that, I really don't.
David Moyes gets the best out of the players, we know that and I still believe that we can get back into the Uefa Cup, as I believe we are a team still capable of competing in Europe and for a club of our rich history, we do belong there. I also believe that we can soon get back to the FA Cup final, I mean I don't see Arsenal, Chelsea, Man United, from stopping us achieving that and the example being just look at the number of times we have beaten Chelsea since the final of 2009. I mean look, if we can keep enough players fit and build enough consistency then I don't see why not! But going back to an investor, how can Birmingham be taken over but not us. We are by miles a better team than they are, with a better future vision of where we want the club to go and we have such a greater history. Not getting an investor is not the fault of the fans, but the fault of Bill Kenwright. If he is trying his best, then it is not good enough and needs to try harder! If he is as true a blue as he says he is and has the passion for the club he says he does, then he should do better as the club, manager and the fans deserve better!
76
As I have said before BK has stated he wont sell the club unless it is to a true blue. In other words he is saying I'm not selling the club unless i have a big fat pocket from it. He is putting himself first rather than the club he is supposed to love. I am sure there has been investors but may be put off by BK demands. When you think off some off the clubs that has found buyers and have maybe 5-10 times our debt. BK has to come out and admit he has no intention off selling unless he gets his pockets filled.
75
First and foremost I don't know the ins and outs of the wheelings and dealings surrounding the two stadium proposals. My gut, perhaps naive, reactions when they failed were; 1. Albert Dock - kopites in charge on the council, no chance of a deal, 2. Kirkby - just a knee-jerk solution. You don't blame a crew when a ship sinks, you look at the people in command. Truth is, unless some of us are well connected, we don't know the real reasons why the dock scheme went to the wall! The reasons behind Kirkby's collapse may not be as difficult to ascertain.
Attracting big investors is always a problem if infrastructure (a decent ground) is not in place. At the end of the day they're looking to turn a profit. Who can blame them for that? Having to stump up money to help pay for a new ground eats into their profit. As a company, yes they need to be sound but who really gives a shit if an investor is not an Evertonian!? Ask Sitteh fans if they're concerned whether their owner has a picture of Colin Bell next to his Van Gogh original on the bedroom wall!
Saying all that, the fact that we can't attract a big investor, particularly when some lesser or equal clubs seem to have no problem in doing so is baffling to me. Perhaps the people in charge don't have the connections needed to bring in the big investors. What is the plan?
I'm a lifelong Blue but I'm concerned and, frankly fed up with season after season of lack of funds, loan deals, and the threat of losing the quality players! Whether you understand the tactics on occasion or not, Moyes and his staff have done a brilliant job to keep us where we are but losing a couple of top players, or a manager, and a couple of bad seasons and, in my opinion, we're finished!
74
Birmingham taken over recently look whats happening now, it could have easilly been us, in Kenwright we trust.
73
Whats the big deal with the scouse thing? Scousers are not all the the salt of the earth some people have read to many Echo's. Kirkby was a wasted oppertunity. If people are happy to stay in a stadium that should'nt even pass a basic health & saftey check then so be it enjoy the wooden floors.
72
The title of this thing is a joke. The fans are the ONLY thing keeping our club alive. How are the fans to blame ahead of Kenwright?
71
I believe Everton are, and have been for the last 3 seasons or so, only about 3 players away from being a team who can challenge for the champions league places every season. Howard, Baines, Jags, Distin, Arteta, Fellaini can play as well as anyone in there positions in the league. Coleman can be up there when on form. Rodwell, Neville, Osman can even do the job as good as any1 at times. All we lack is pace in the midfield. N'Zogbia would of rectified this but we've lost him to Villa. A good striker and a couple of good pacey midfielders would change us ridiculously. But where not signing anyone, just being linked with Bothroyd an McFadden. And some people are saying the boards doing its job. And the title of this email is blame the fans, not Kenwright? Are you for real? How do you look at yourself in the mirror? How can you blame the fans? Very Bad Shout.
70
KEIOC have killed our club? Explain? So if we'd have moved to Kirby we'd be flying an signing loads players? Doesn't make sense get a grip. If anything we'd have less chance of signing players (if that's physically possible). Kirby wouldn't of helped at all, the only stadium move that would've helped us would have been the Kings Dock but that's distant history. Kenwright an the board are destroying us. Doesn't matter if he got EFCs interests at heart, so has all of us. But if you are in charge then put some money up or step aside.
69
The KEIOC clan are not the ones to blame for our lack of investment, but what they cannot do is have a go at Kenwright for not allowing investment and for our club to grow; that's hypocrisy personified on their part! For their information, I know for a fact from a family friend that Kenwright was actually AGAINST the move to Kirkby. So KEIOC and others who blame him for holding the club back can shove that. He gave the vote to fans, what we wanted and about 60% voted in favour. Bill listened to the fans. It's not his fault we didn't get that move.
Unfortunately, it was the Government's decision to not allow the move because it may have taken business away from an ailing town centre that killed it dead. What they neglected to think about were the jobs this would have created but maybe I'm being slightly biased in saying that.
68
If we had any money at all to put into the project, where is it now that the stadium hasn't been built..? why aren't we buying players and getting rid of the hacks and misfits.... The Evertonians may have voted yes for the stadium, But if you actually believe that you are still getting presents from Santa. The people of Kirkby voted against it! Why would you say yes to another team from another City taking over Yours? If we are still considering boundaries as you say, then there is plenty of space in Southport for us to build a decent size ground...much rather go there than Kirkby anyway...The docks was our best bet, but managed to fuck that one up as well....its no use discussing anything about Everton Fc because we haven't got a say in anything the club does, Bill decides except! O`h and for those of you who liked the idea of moving to Kirkby, they have a footy club there, its called Kirkby Town Fc... Go and support them....
67
Mike B, are you J Carragher in disguise? The red s*** came out with the same stupid observation "A Stubbs not born in Liverpool can't be a Scouser" This from a guy born in the town of Bootle, nearer to Liverpool granted but never the less a town just like Kirkby - Outside the Liverpool city limits, but the town of Kirkby was built up by the mass exodus during the fifties of Liverpool people including my family to the new housing estate in Kirkby. Now, 99% of the people there have Grandparents/Parents who were born 8 miles or so down the road in Liverpool. By the way if asked, My reply "I'm from Merseyside"
66
Blame the fans? what a crock of sh!te.
The fans want answers, there is nothing wrong with that.
Were has the money gone from the sale of Peanuts and Vaughan (approx £4.5m), this should have been enough for a down payment for our top transfer target. This is not to mention the revenue generated from season ticket sales and premier league prize money.
For gods sake the club cant even fix the wall which was knocked down prior to the last game of the season at the back of the park end....or is that the fans fault too?
65
Honestly, the utter tripe that comes out of several fans mouths is unbelievable. Football is all about opinions and everyone is entitled to one however, how you channel that opinion is key to how we move forward. Most of you depress me so i wont be coming on here again.
64
Kings Dock a missed opportunity. Kirkby by the grace of God a disaster avoided. Move on we are we are ENJOY following the Blues. Everyone enjoys a rollercoaster and respects an Old Lady. God Save Goodison Park. The posts, the terrace houses, the chippy van, don't you just love going to watch the blues. The place will rock.
63
All i know is that money talks, now without investment what is the best way to get money. getting into Europe now with the players at our disposal it is very possible. i will support Everton till the day i die. i do not like to say bad things about the club i love. born a blue live a blue die a blue. lets get behind our great team & get into Europe (even Europa pays more than nothing) and get that little bit of added funds into our club. (i would love investment into our club, but until then let Neville and the boys do the talking on the pitch) plus we all love a good piss up on the continent anyway.
61
Be very wary of what you wish and dream for in place of the current regime running our club. Ask Brum and Blackburn fans what they think of their owners! We might not be signing players and in my opinion we lost a great opportunity at the Kings Docks, but we are still at our home, we are not cashing cheques like Leeds united did chasing and living the dream! Maybe Kenwright has an agenda, but until he tells us what it is, we have to stop bickering about all the issues and get right behind David Moyes and cheer our boys on , regardless of who is wearing the shirt!!!!!
The truth always gets out eventually, and its bloody killing me waiting for it to happen!!!!!
60
Come on all you gloom merchants, what do you want? Yanks, who screw you up. Shiekh's who want you as a toy, Russian mafia to play his own team. Suggestions please? Bill top man, We have a decent squad this season, one year from last when we were all fairly happy. who would you? add, Andy Carroll 35 mill, Downing, 18 mill, Henderson 20 mill, get a fkn grip blues!
58
Mike B of Preston needs a massive reality check - The Women who live in Kirkby go to Fazerakerly Hosptial to give birth. Now unless you redrew the boundaries, that is in Liverpool and therefore the vast majority of those who live in Kirkby are scousers, you dick. And for the record I was born in Oxford Street Hospital and if you need to know were that was then you aren't a scouser or your still a nipper.
56
I've heard alot of BS about Kirkby from alot of people who don't know there history - but to put a few matters straight a) boundaries between Kirkby and Knowsley, Sefton and Liverpool have changed and danced about in all it's history - being a member of all the formentioned at some point. However, the greater creation of the town we know is of the overspill of Scotland Road and anyone born in the area will most likely have been born in a Liverpool hospital (more percentage wise than in the city itself these days). BUT neither KEIOC or Everton fans are to blame for the non-move to Kirkby. Again, for all the non-history buffs - complaints by Liverpool City Council and a number of others (who should be known as We Want Shopping Centre Developments Too) complained to the Government and put a stop to it on planning - pity they couldn't do the same for SONEA but it was in Kirkby - so who gives a S*&T
55
While I would like to see some money for player's we should be careful what we wish for, We have seen many take overs in the last few years and from what I can see it has not worked out too well for most of the teams that were taken over three exceptions (QPR included in that 3), maybe Bill is right being cautious as to who he sells to.
54
Absolutely correct in every way KEIOC should hang their heads in collective shame. Our best option gone for good. What next implosion? Much more Debt? Or groundshare?
53
BOLLOCKS. Are you Elstone? Kirkby was never going to happen once we had to put cash in. Not to mention trying to bypass planning regs. Another great success story for Bill to be proud of.
52
The stadium would have been a disaster, not for location, but it wouldn't have generated much extra revenue for transfers. Sure it couldn't even hold concerts or the like.
51
"Oh it could have been oh so different."
That's what Leeds are saying now after not watching their spending!
50
Our time will come? Be patient? Keep the faith? Imwt? It's down to Fan power? Blue Bill can't do wrong? Our board are great? F-OFF will you.
Anyone who believes any of that (except for Imwt),YOUR CLINICAL,MENTAL,NOT SAFE TO BE OUT,KEEP AWAY FROM SHARP OBJECTS.I thought it was the gobshites who were the deluded ones.Get a grip you idiots.The Championship is closer than you think.Especially when Moyes opens the door and holds it for himself and our players who will have had enough of this crap.The board and Kenwright are F'ing useless.There are Billionaires,Millionaires on the panel and none of them are putting their own cash in. They are merely running a business on it's own finances. Speculate to accumulate? They ain't interested. Get it?
49
Can you imagine if we'd have got that stadium next to the Mersey? - would have been the dogs. Breaks me heart every time I go past and see the Echo arena. Is there any more room on the river front?
48
Ok Bill is a true blue but for many years now he thinks he can run the club on his enthusiasm, why buy the club in the first place if he knew he had no money to invest in our great club? What does bill and the board expect from us loyal fans when we can see our financial position getting worse every season and when will Moyes have enough? Still, on the bright side, you are right Billy boy, best fans in the world. EFC forever
47
This is probably the most pointless article I have ever read. For whatever reason we do not have a new stadium and trying to apportion blame today to something that happened 2 years ago is futile. I'm not at all sure that a new stadium would be the panacea that many people think it would be anyway. It doesn't seem to have done much good for the likes of Derby County or Bolton. We have an average gate of about 36,000. Why would this go up greatly if we had a 50,000 seater stadium? Like it or not we are no longer among the financial elite and we have to accept that if there is no money for transfers, then no players will be coming in. At the start of last season I believed that this was the strongest squad we had had for 10 years. With the exception of Pienaar it is still the same squad. I am quite happy to start the season as we are.
46
Maybe he's right although his facts are not correct . That ground wouldn't have been the be all and end all . Considering we would input limited finds it would be nothing like the likes of the Emirates stadium but a bog standard ground . We had the chance 3 seasons ago to move forward but Moyes didn't buy in time and we fell behind , then the next season we did well but again didn't buy in pre season , same every season although this time at least we have an excuse . We have no money . Cant say that 2 years ago because we paid 15m for Fellaini . I blame poor transfer activity in pre seasons in previous years when good players were attracted .
45
Shirt 9, Kirkby has never been in Liverpool, Liverpool council leased some land off Kirkby council (Knowsley) to build houses because there was no room in Liverpool to build any more, that lease is now up, Alan Stubbs sounds like a scouser but is not and never has been.
Google Kirkby history, you will see I am right. Don't forget Finch farm is not in Liverpool either Halewood (Knowsley)
44
From what I read, the proposed stadium in Kirkby was going to be a far inferior model to what they were trying to sell us! So we dodged a bullet there! In an ideal world where corruption is not ripe, a brand new stadium in Kirkby (but no further) would have been ideal! What we desperately need is to be better managed! The Kings Dock fiasco was an early warning sign of just what type of character we had running the club! Make no mistake, it doesn't matter how much our Bill and Board love Everton FC! Business will always come 1st with these people! And that’s the bottom line!
43
It's about time Kenwright told us whats going on, I bought my season ticket early because Moyes said he was going to get his transfers early.
If I could get my money back I would, I've been a supporter for nearly 40 years and it's my last, that team is not good enough, I saw about four good games last season at home.
Kenwright only comes out when we're doing well with that stupid smile on his gob, sick of him and his excuses.
He keeps telling us he is looking for investors, I would like to know where he is looking. True blue but fed up with him.
42
Unless I'm very much mistaken the Campaign Groups you speak of merely highlighted the lies and false promises made by the club. Kings Dock has a patsy in Paul Gregg so any shortfalls by the club are masked when he gets the blame for the lot. It's safe to say I STILL hear the club rue the Dock and it's lost opportunity...do they ever sell sob stories over Kirkby ? The answer is no. Simply because the whole thing was a big steaming crock of shite. Looking back they must be embarrassed.
Surely if the ideas the club put forward and the money they said was there, was actually there, then the words of a few people who do drawings and eat babies on forums would have meant nothing and these grand plans, free grounds and buying Lionel Messi because we sold more hot dogs than we used to, would have just been pushed through and happened.
Perhaps we couldn't walk the walk with Kings Dock, perhaps Kirkby was Tesco and Greens dream, perhaps that particular scheme had very little to do with Everton's future and more to do with the future size of the pockets of the brokers telling the lies to get Everton on board ?
It amazes me that despite the whole Kirkby inquiry being there for all to read, understand and take in it is roundly ignored and Evertonians are blamed....by Evertonians.
Bill Kenwright had very little to do with Kirkby. The fact it failed was not through some hate campaign against him or how good a blue he is. It failed because it was an unfeasible joke. That's not just my opinion it's a cold hard fact.
How hard is that to understand ?
41
Blue Bill is fine and dandy, leave him alone.
We can't fill Goodison anymore, nothing to do with Bill. We play shite football with a manager that rather than try and win a game prefers to try and not lose a game. That's why I stopped going.. it's crap!
No solution, the game has changed and we are out of the loop, deal with it.
Remember the welcome mat laid out across the park for the yanks? is that Everton too?? No.
Just try and hold onto the players and get a good coach
39
Devoid of any facts I'm afraid.....the wool is still firmly over your eyes. Kirkby failed at the government level secondary to piss poor planning and attempts to circumvent regulation. It was far from free and would have required ~ 72 million from the club. Investors queuing up??? Seriously???
38
You've totally missed the point - Kirkby failed because it was a flawed plan from the start - who conceived the plan ? Who forked out millions of pounds to pay for the plan which has added to our debt and as a consequence also eroded our transfer budget ? How can we trust the Board to organise a new stadium when they can't even organise an flat pack building on our own car park ?!
37
Chris you are an idealist. You forgot to mention that we probably would have won the Champions League a couple of times by now and just signed Lionel Messi. I believe both stadia would have at least doubled our current debt,probably more.
36
This debate just won't go away will it? I kind of agree with article - I was far more upset about losing Kings Dock than Kirkby- that was a truly iconic location - just look at the success of L1. We could have been a part of that. What killed me about that deal was the lack of a serious investor then in a project that any sensible business mind could appreciate. Kirkby not so fussed about but I do want a new stadium. As for BK despite these two major let downs with the stadium I stand by him as an owner, scouser and true ambassador for our city. I just wish he had far deeper pockets but I wish I had them too!
35
Well spoken mate - The decision by the government would have been much harder had the fans given it full support and don't forget the people of Kirkby (probably most of them Kopites) who voted against the re generation of their town and the hundreds of jobs it would have created.
34
Are you for real?
The proposed stadium was being built on contaminated land, broke every planning regulation going, was in the middle of nowhere with no transport plan nor infrastructure and would have cost the club over 72 million.
The capacity was going to be capped by KMBC because of these problems and the interest payments alone would not have been recovered by the potential income let alone attract an investor.
Please check out the facts before spouting shite like this.
The only people to have gained by Kirkby was Kenwright and cronies LTD.
33
Very true Chris. There are far too many groups/forums/societies within our support. Most of which are extremely negative for the club to move forward. None of us are ever pulling in the same direction and that is why we are a club in decline.
32
Kirkby might have suited Tesco, Kenwright, Phillip Green and Robert Earl, but saddling the club with more debt, moving to a location only accessible by foot, single track railway or bicycle and with a minimum tenancy of 25 years it would have been a complete disaster for Everton.
Kirkby failing was the best thing to happen to Everton for years, Kenwright leaving will be the next.
31
This article is completely devoid of any facts. Why blame the fans? For Everton not putting £30m for the Dock or because Dave Kelly of (KEIOC) "[KEIOC] repeatedly questioned the cost of the stadium, the chosen location flew in the face of perceived wisdom, overall this project represented an unacceptable risk to Everton Football Club," said Kelly. Apologies for the layout – but I’m trying to base my reply on facts, rather than some sort curious opinion.
Why not point the finger towards;
Kirkby Residents' Action Group, who were at forefront of any objections.
Or possibly Communities Secretary John Denham, who actually made the decision, not to allow Everton to build the stadium, but hey lets just blame the fans!
Chris Aldridge or Chris to his mates ‘’I’m not interested in facts’’, you can prove anything with facts’’
A complete & utter fool !
29
Oh and by the way - just to set the record straight - Kirkby is not in Liverpool and people born there are not scousers in the same way that people born in New Brighton, Birkenhead, Warrington, Runcorn, St Helens et al are not either.
Scousers are born in Liverpool - end of.
28
I have never heard so much tosh in my life - the fans did not prevent Kirkby - it was in breach of planning regulations.
If we had gone there then I would really be worrying for our club
- transport links were truly appalling (a single line railway with one 6 carriage train every 15 mins, bus station two miles from the ground and an officially calculated dispersal time averaging 55 mins!!)
- stadium design was poor and definitely not the world class one we were promised.
- it was not going to be free - the club were forced to admit to the tribunal that it would them upwards of £70m
- there would no non-football activities allowed (ie no concerts)
Who was to blame for this fiasco - the same people who could not even deliver a new building at the back of Goodison - THE BOARD.
We are a laughing stock and these are the people to blame - not the few who managed to get the truth about the disaster Kirkby would be out in the open.
The sooner this disaster of a Board go the better - we need someone to buy the club because we will not get someone to 'invest' as Billy is so fond of looking for while he has got control.
I was grateful for Kenwright when he got rid of Johnson but you know what I am beginning to wonder if Kenwright isn't worse than Johnson (and please don't play he is a fan, one of us card because frankly I want a hard-headed shrewd business-man in charge not a blinkered idiotic lying toe-rag)
27
"How different this could have all been, if it wasn't for a few campaign groups and the decision from some committee in Westminster." Yes, please don't let any of the concrete facts presented by the groups and accepted by the committee in anyway deter you from dreaming about the imaginary better future we would have had in a pie-in-the-sky Tescodrome cowshed miles outside of the City of Liverpool. That some people still believe the original propaganda put out by the club despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary is truly mind boggling.
26
One huge glaring error and one that is often overlooked.
The majority of Blues voted for the Kirkby move!
The Board and those who advised them in terms of the planning for the Stadium and the rest of the site failed to deliver a proposal that met with the regulations
I voted for the move as at the time it made sense to me, but I do remember KEIOC claiming and rightly so, as it turned out, the plans could not be approved as they did not meet with the necessary regulatory requirements.
Bill has been on the Board since 1989 and has failed to answer satisfactorily two simple questions that were on the Agenda at his very first Board meeting.
First how to provide the manager with the funds to operate in the transfer market.
Secondly ground redevelopment/move.
He is no closer to coming up with an answer than he was 20+ years ago. In fact, as evidenced by the fact we can no longer operate in the transfer market it is not unreasonable to suggest that he is further away from having a vision, a plan or any sense of direction for the Club than ever!
I would love a lifelong Blue to have been at the helm and lead the Club back to the glory days in a huge two fingered gesture to Sky and the foreign owners with the new toys. But that dream is dead and we are not hearing any great rallying cry from the Club about how the present Custodians have a road map of how to get out of the current situation.
Hope, Bill does not have the money, we accept that. But he has to stand up and talk directly to Blues and offer us hope for the years to come. If he can not it is time for him to go, sadly.
25
Sense at last rather than the small minded nonsense from others.
Both Kenwright and Leahy are Evertonians - that's all you need to know.
24
Couldn't agree more, and it will be those "fans" that made up all these protest groups such as those IDIOTS at keioc that will be the first moaning that we haven't signed anybody... for me the club should have just pushed the move through and not even bother with a ballot, as stated in the article its 3 miles away!!!! but now probably a million miles away.
23
1. The stadium dream on the Waterfront was gone because Bill Kenwright refused Paul Greggs offer to put the money up in return for more control of the club. And anyway, I always thought that money was ‘ring-fenced’!
2. A stadium for next to nothing? Then why did the public inspector ask Robert Elstone where the club thinks it will raise at least £78million for their share of the project?
3. £50million worth of debt? So that means the stadium would have cost us nothing? Yeah right.
4. United may owe £700million, but their annual turnover is nearly £300million a year… ours is £80million a year. Comparing the two clubs is just ridiculous.
Final point, we have a sell to buy policy. Fair enough. Peinaar gone for 2.5m. Vaughan gone for 2m. Yobo, Yakubu, Vaughan loaned out last season. All told you’re talking £10m to £12m. So, why where we unable to put a bid in for N’Zogbia? How much of that has gone to Philip Green, the man who paid for Robert Earls shares?
This board is bringing the club to its knees, and we are all walking blindly towards meltdown because ‘Bill’s a blue’ and asking questions results in the slanderous ‘get behind the club, don’t be a kopite’ quotes.
22
Totally agree some of the so called true blues need to take a good hard look at themselves and realise they are doing more harm than good. What player or investor would get involved with a club that the fans are tearing apart lets be honest?
21
This email is bob on! If all the trouble wasn't brought up by the fans that didn't want the move then we would have had a stadium plan in place and looking attractive to buyers.
Unfortunately the local shops and bars around Goodison created the storm so that they wouldn't miss out on the loss of business of the stadium moving.
20
The failure to move to Kirkby was nothing to do with the fans. The planning permission got knocked back. End of.
Fan groups and the like have no impact on the Everton board. They never listen to them and decisions are rarely made with the consumer in mind. That's ok as long as we can keep our position in the premier league until the right investment opportunity is found. Yes, you have to seek them out, they don't just knock on your door with a big suitcase full of cash. You should really blame the Kirkby residents and the surrounding small commercial areas that would have been impacted by the development.
19
Andy from liverpool you're obviously not a blue otherwise you would have
A. Read that email properly
B. You would of followed the Kirkby campaign, Tesco was building it for us, so that means yes it would of been free
17
Well said Chris! Was the fact that we let ourselves down at the start of the season last year, and the year before, because we didn't spend billions on new players? Was it bollocks!
We've got a top squad who can beat any other Prem team on their day, as we've proved many times over the last few years.
I'm gonna do as I normally do, trust the manager with the squad and the chairman with the finances, and I'll just enjoy watching the Blue Boys play footy!! Can't wait for the season to start! COYB!!!!!
16
Blaming Kenwright has NOT been easy for many fans, myself included. But he's had 11 years to find investment or sell and he hasn't.
The shite hired Broughton who found a buyer within 18 months. Something just doesn't stack up with Kenwright REALLY wanting to sell. He's also in that 11 years overseen two failed ground moves, promised investment (Fortress funds) that never materialised, cancelled the AGM and other well documented blunders including the park end debacle.
Throughout all this this he has never come clean and given the fans an explanation.
So it's with a heavy heart that my patience and many other Everton fans has finally run out with Kenwright. He has taken us as far as he can and with no investment likely the club can try and maintain a mid-table position or they can aspire for greater things and that has to start with the removal of Kenwright and the recruitment of Broughton esque interim chair.
Oh and for all those glass half empty fans, you mention Leeds, I mention Chelsea, Citteh or the Shite.. perfect examples of buyers coming in who no one had heard of and have invested heavily in those clubs so WHY not Everton?
COYB
15
Absolutely spot on!
Besides any possible money issues within the club, the needless and frankly pathetic KEIOC campaign played a massive part in derailing Kirkby, as did the dodgy dealings within Liverpool City Council that made sure the plans got called in to Government, and ultimately got rejected.
I wonder when the time will actually come that, because of Goodison's limitations, we cannot compete in the Premiership any more? It's starting to happen already, teams like Stoke are slowly drawing level with us, and will eventually surpass us. Like I keep saying we cannot continue to rely on teamspirit to get us through. What's going to happen in a couple of years when the entire core of the squad needs replacing?
No new stadium = No increase in finance for new players.
14
So we're to blame? So we should all just say nothing then and let Bill carry on like he's been doing?......Great.
10
OK so not all the facts quoted in the article are 100% correct but still 100% better than the drivel that TW and SOS cough up every day. Well said that man!
9
Chris, Please, do a little research. The Kirkby Stadium plan was thrown out, not by a committee in Westminster, but by the Minister for Communities and Local Government. Why? Because it contravened a wide range of planning policies. In short, they were trying to build a facility half the size of the Trafford Centre in Kirkby, and planning policy wouldn't allow it.
Your much lauded Terry Leahy knew this of course, from the outset. As did members of KEIOC, whose warnings were largely ignored by most, and completely by Everton. When he wrote his 'Open Letter', published on the Echo front page, he did so knowing it contained lies. However, in the greater scheme of things, getting the first application turned down, and going back in with a revised plan was Tesco strategy from the start. They ended up with a bigger development than they would have got under normal circumstances, with the second application unopposed. They had a Plan B, whereas Everton, as stated from the outset, did not.
The blame lies not with the fans, but squarely with the board, who led us into this misadventure. What doesn't make sense in your article is that you don't seem to want to blame the board for the Kings Dock failure, even though you acknowledge they didn't have the money (but could have done, if they had accepted Paul Gregg's offer).
In short, your article is poorly researched, poorly written, and poorly concluded. I find it truly astonishing that even after all that has been written, all that came out of the inquiry, and events since, such as the debacle at the Park End, you still don't think Kenwright is to blame, but the fans are.
Shame on you.
8
I couldn't agree more Chris, the 'Blame Kenwright Brigade' have a lot to answer for. We simply cannot compete in today's Premier League. Moyes needs to move-on to a club that will not only support him, but one that has both its supporters and a board pulling in the same direction. RIP EFC!
7
This is the kind of fan that we're up against. Bill's a blue and therefore can do no wrong.
I can't be bothered anymore - you get what you deserve, and the apathy that the majority of our fan base shows makes us deserve Kenwright and the lies and lack of leadership that comes with him.
Thankfully we have Moyes or we'd be a Championship team by now.
6
Well said Chris, you are not the only one who thinks like that. Sadly due to decisions in the past we are destined for a hard road ahead to try and compete with the top flight in England
5
"Now let's picture the scene that we had got that Stadium. We would have been a Premiership club with admittedly still around £50m worth of debts"
The stadium was free then was it ?
4
(1) Kirkby died solely because it ignored planning regulations - nothing to do with KEIOC.
(2) The minimal cash input for Kirkby was £72m - more than twice the amount that they failed to find for the Kinds Dock.
(3) The board have continually failed this club and its fans .
3
Whats happening with this new mega-store office block malarkey behind the park end? They got rid of the marquee in November and nothing has started.
2
If only people power was so influential!
The ground moves didn't come off because the finances were not in place, a bit of online fisticuffs surely could not pull the project down. I would still go for the fact that the two build projects were flawed for reasons still really unkown to us all.
Blame the people if blame is needed. Who submitted the business plan? Blame where blame is due...
1
At last sense talked about our beloved club, spoken from the head and not the heart.
We all want to compete with the best, BUT we must be realistic, Mr Moyes does a fantastic job with very limited funding.
Do we want to become another Leeds, once a proud club at the top, Champions League, top players, and a bank balance / cashflow that a lunatic would not approve.
Patience my friends, our time will come, and whilst we wait we must be prudent
COYB
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