The Big Man moves right along
By
Mickey Blue Eyes

Wednesday, 4.00 pm, 25th May 2005. To Goodison Park for a second interview with Everton chief executive Keith Wyness.

This time well settled in and much more ebullient after a remarkable season.

I suggest you read the transcript and pay no heed to pub and bar gossip. It explodes more than a few tedious myths.

Make up your own mind. (26/05/05)

MBE: Thanks for meeting with me again, Keith. Congratulations on a magnificent first season. After the first month here, the contrast with the last month must be somewhat startling. How would you describe the difference? From the depths to euphoria?

KW: No, to be honest I kept a fairly sanguine view of the whole thing. Obviously we have exceeded where I thought we would be in terms of football performance. But I always felt we would be able to show a real movement forward with the club. The football was the icing on the cake to make it go to that extra level with our off-pitch performance, but to this degree has just been a huge delight.

MBE: How do you separate out the administration side from the playing side? Both you and David Moyes seem to have healthy individualist egos. Have you ever locked horns? For instance are you “allowed” into the dressing room?

KW:We have never fallen out, we have an excellent working relationship from my point of view. I hope David would say the same. I think that’s because I came clearly with an understanding that I wanted to support the manager. I think it’s the role of the chief executive to do that though different executives at other clubs do it in different ways

MBE: Do you ever go into the dressing room? Do you go into it during a match?

KW: No, not during a match, never on a match day. I might go and see David after a game but nothing more than that. I don’t get involved during a match because I respect the football staff. We’d all be in trouble if I started interfering in the football side!

MBE: For those fans who don’t know, can you list the directors now on the board and their percentage ownership in the club?

KW: Well, the board consists of Bill Kenwright as chairman, Jon Woods as deputy chairman, Paul Gregg and Anita Gregg and myself. Those are the five members of the board. Paul Gregg’s family shareholding is I believe at 23%, Bill’s is at 25%, Jon’s at 19% and I have no shareholding as such.

MBE: How often do the directors meet formally? Do they all attend regularly?

KW: Anita Gregg has yet to attend but she has sent an alternate to each of the meetings. They are called as required but as a rule of thumb it’s once a month depending on peoples’ availability.

MBE: Can we reprise our previous interview and update some of the matters discussed then? Can we start with the commercial targets you set yourself? You will recall you wanted to get the annual turnover up to mid-sixty millions in three years. Are you on target so far? If so, what percentage increase have you achieved to date?

KW: Yes, we are on target. And obviously a lot of that is due to the increased football performance, which meant the turnover has increased through two major points. That is, we’ve been on TV more and also the position in the league. Apart from that there has also been some knock-ons into other areas which are the ones we try to impact ourselves.

MBE: Can you describe which areas of business have received your greatest attention and how you dealt with them? How many of the changes were your own original ideas and how many attributable to plans already in the pipeline? What is planned for the next couple of years that will be immediately obvious to the fans?

KW: The three years plan that we announced at the AGM was a combination of a realistic view of where the business was and what needed to be done. Nearly everything we’ve put in place had a different twist to the existing because the personnel are all different. It was a different style and a different approach we have tried to develop. Every single part of the business is starting to be impacted now. But it’s still going to take through this next season before things are running the way I want them to be. It takes a long time to turn the oil tanker tanker round.

MBE: So what’s your biggest difficulty?

KW I think almost geographically within Goodison we had different parts of the business acting almost with a “silo mentality.” Communication and leading that group effectively has been the biggest challenge still for this business as an organisation.

MBE: In old jargon, then, it requires “joined-up thinking”?

KW: Exactly. That’s what we’ve tried very hard to do. Also that we’ve had the right staff with the right attitude in the right place.

MBE: Have you changed many staff? Do you intend to introduce new blood in the near future?

KW: We have made quite a few changes and there are some major announcements still to come. I have always said that by the start of this next season I would have the senior management team in place that I was happy with. Then through next season we will have the whole organisation ready to go.

MBE: So you’re happy with the way things are going so far?

KW: Yes. You can only push change so far and so fast. You can have too much change sometimes.

MBE: That’s why almost all fans felt after you said what you said at the AGM/EGM that it was necessary for the air to be cleared. Certainly the fans would go along with it. Whether within the organisation people with entrenched positions would agree is another matter.

KW: There is always that in any organisation whether it is Everton or anybody else. It’s human nature, and that’s what we’re up against rather than something that is specifically Everton. That’s what I have to manage and we’re pushing it very hard.

MBE: Can we turn now to communications with the fans? Do you think this has now improved? Last time we spoke of , for want of a better name, a “Fans’ Council.” What happened to that?

KW: Well, it’s still on the agenda. But I still haven’t found one body that clearly represents a full spectrum of the fans. It’s still very difficult for me to meet each separate group.

MBE: So far this season how many groups have you seen? Which did you get to see? What future ongoing arrangements do you intend? What mechanisms do you have in place or proposed for dealing with day-to-day fans’ gripes? These things are all linked aren’t they?

KW: The day-to-day things I think we handle as effectively as possible. We’ve actually been nominated for a customer service award, but of course every other gripe won’t accept that. There’ll always be questions about football but in terms of the overall direction of the club in the bigger issues I want to try to revitalise the idea of the Fans’ Council. I want to see if there’s any genuine mileage in proposals that the fans can raise extra money in terms of shares etc. We are going to have to focus on that as an issue. I am hoping to unite the Fans’ Council around that.

MBE: You also said you wanted to get out to meet as many of the fans’ groups as you could. How many have you managed to see?

KW: I am due to see the London supporters in the summer. I’ve offered every other supporters group that I’ll come but there’s been very few who requested me.

MBE: Well that’s a surprise given some of the extreme noises you sometimes hear. Is that offer still open?

KW: Yes of course, absolutely. I’m meeting with a disabled group on Friday. Every fans grouping I am always available to. I’ve met the Shareholders Association. Again, if I’m requested, I’m available.

MBE: Which brings me on to the question of the proposed groundshare. Is that now dead and buried?

KW: I think it would be difficult to say it’s dead and buried. I think we’re still in limbo and will have to wait to see if the Stanley Park Liverpool project works. I think we’ll have to wait and see how that develops.

MBE: Well, they’ve got planning permission for it now, though that’s not the same as funding of course………….

KW: ………no, it’s not the same as funding. And it’s not the same as actually getting a fully executed approval either. I think there’s now a phase of legal challenges too.

MBE: So you’re not discounting a groundshare?

KW: Nothing’s ruled in or out at the moment. It’s such a difficult position, it’s like three-dimensional chess.

MBE: Where do we stand on redevelopment of Goodison versus a new stadium?
· Are the club still looking for a new site? · Are you still considering redevelopment of Goodison Park? · Has there been another outline redevelopment feasibility study for Goodison Park? · Have you changed your thoughts about the capacity of a new stadium? Last time we spoke you mentioned 50,000.· Will the fans be asked to vote again?

KW: I hate not being in control of our own destiny to a certain extent, but so much depends on the outcome of the Stanley Park project. That will unlock a lot of local and central government assistance both in terms of funding and planning approvals. So we have to wait and see how that’s going to develop. In terms of work on Goodison we have not invested any more in that study until it becomes clearer.

MBE: Just to tidy up on the groundshare issue, I meant in principle, I didn’t particularly mean for the Stanley Park scheme.

KW: But I mean that as well.

MBE: Okay, with regards to stadium proposals, how would you describe your relations with the city council and its officers? Are you getting all the co-operation you wish?

KW: Yes, they’re good. We established credibility after the Kings Dock situation and I think we have a good line of communication with them.

MBE: If we continue present playing success do you think this much accelerates any stadium ideas the club may have? If so, by how much?

KW: I think if we have two or three continuous seasons of European success it’s got to. It automatically impacts on finances.

MBE: Last time we spoke you said there were some ideas for work you would be doing at Goodison Park. Are you in any position yet to say what they are?

KW: We’ve done a lot of work on the boxes and the lounges. We’ve taken a huge project on the pitch which meant we had to dig up the whole undersoil heating and the pitch and relay everything. There’s twenty miles of pipes to be relaid……………

MBE: …………that undersoil heating has always given us problems…………

KW: …………and that alone is a major project, so if we don’t want to relay the pitch three times a season we have to do this work now. It’s lucky we made that decision because with the extra European games we may have we’re going to need the pitch to be in top shape.

MBE: Okay, but other than the boxes etc., there’s nothing else?

KW: No, nothing major yet. Everything we look at now has to have a payback period for at least three years.

MBE: What is the situation with the proposed Academy at Halewood? Do we have the money to proceed and what is the timescale for construction?

KW: I’m hoping to have an announcement on that next week. I can’t say any more at the moment.

MBE: The David France collection. Last time we spoke you said it had to be resolved by the end of this season. What is the present situation?

KW: We are slightly delayed by lawyers in getting everything registered but we now have the official charity registered, which is the Everton Collection. That will be the fund raising vehicle so we can go ahead and raise money from the fans and the club. It will be an independent charitable body controlled by the trustees that will raise the money to own the David France collection, if we can raise the money. We’ve also secured an agreement with the new Museum of Liverpool to have that as a potential display gallery and to maintain it. And if we add the club’s collection along with that we’ll have by far the best in the world. We’ll be announcing in due course the details of the fund raising effort, which will go more toward the start of next season. That’s something we’ll be really urging the fans to get behind because it will be owned by the fans and by the people.

MBE: So the collection is intact is it?

KW: It is intact and we’ve signed an agreement with David that we’ll have this chance to raise the money to buy the collection from him.

MBE: Is there a limit on that?

KW: There is. I won’t go into the details but there is a time limit and it will coincide with our fund raising appeal. We’ve engaged a professional fund raising firm to do all we can to preserve the collection. The club will contribute but the collection will be owned by the separate charitable trust. I hope people realise that this will be the best heritage collection of any club in the world.

MBE: In the light of the proposed Malcolm Glazer takeover methods at Manchester United can we try to settle a couple of the rumours that sprung up around True Blue Holdings (TBH), the private company which owned Everton Football Club and was liquidated last year?

According to rumour – and I do stress RUMOUR – TBH acquired the club for nothing, their loan to buy the shares was paid for by the club and thus in ten years from date of purchase they will have acquired the club for nothing, and that the club paid Peter Johnson £750,000 when he left, not TBH. Is any of this true?

KW: I don’t know. I haven’t looked into the books that far back.

MBE: But it would still appertain to the books now wouldn’t it if that was the case?

To be honest it isn’t something I have even looked at. You’d have to ask Bill that. I just don’t know the answer to that.

MBE: Why was TBH disbanded? Was it done so amicably?

KW: Yes it was. And Bill was instrumental in having that done.

MBE: But why was it done?

KW: Again, you’d have to ask the shareholders of that company. It’s for them to comment on.

MBE: Obviously the boardroom is still split between two factions. Are we going to see a settlement of this any time soon? It must make your job seem like walking on eggshells at times.

KW: I’m just focused on running the club day-to-day. At the moment I have the full support of the board and everything we’re doing. That’s all I require to keep on going. I obviously want to see a peaceful, progressive board room and that’s all I’m interested in.

MBE: Are we any nearer to it?

KW: Again, I can’t comment on that.

MBE: Is The Fortress Sports Fund proposal alive or dead? If still alive, is there any timescale to offer the fans? If dead, why? The media attributed a quote to you that you are against their proposal……..can you describe your reservations? Do you know any more now than you did before of the individual funders and the Brunei-based organisation?

KW: I would probably be leaning against the original offer that was talked about. But at this stage there is still no formal offer on the table. There are many reasons for that as I understand it. Nevertheless, there’s nothing to discuss because there’s no formal offer. I continue to talk to many different funding options.

MBE: What was your reservation against the offer?

KW: I think there’s a certain value for the club that may have improved this last season. It’s a difficult one because one season doesn’t necessarilly value the club very differently, but it does give you a bit of a stronger leverage. I’d love to get a better deal if I can.

MBE: Well there’s only one type of deal to strike and that’s a hard one, isn’t it?

KW: There is, and that’s what I’ll always do in Everton’s best interests. Nevertheless, as I said last time, there’s no queue of people outside my window here. That’s what people must realise in the football sector. We’re not a sector that’s in favour still.

MBE: Do you know anymore now than you did before about the organisation and its funders?

KW: No. They haven’t made a formal offer so there’s nothing to ask about.

MBE: Are there any other proposals by anyone for incoming investment? Do you foresee any changes in the ownership pattern or in the boardroom?

KW: Not at the moment. There was a bit of a flurry of interest and discussions after Champions League qualification but you tend to discount people who come in after that sort of event. I’ll be looking for serious long-term investors.

MBE: And we haven’t had any?

KW: I am nowhere near the conclusion of anything at all.

MBE: What do you know of the alleged interest in buying in of Mr. Stephen Vaughan? Have you been consulted in this matter?

KW: I have not had any contact regarding that at all. No formal or informal approach at all to me as chief executive. I can’t speak for individual shareholders.

MBE: For the fans, can you confirm our current total level of debt and when it will be paid back? Can repayment be accelerated?

KW: The debt still revolves around our securitisation, which is the big loan we took out. I think it’s twenty-six years from now for the final repayment. There are penalty clauses that make it difficult to repay earlier. The club’s in its best and most stable condition for many, many years.

MBE: Where would you place the level of debt in relationship to the rest of the premiership?

KW: Oh we’re definitely – if the top of the league is the safest – in the top ten if not the top six.

MBE: So you have no concerns about managing the debt as matters stand now?

KW: Absolutely not, no.

MBE: The fans inundated the Blue Kipper website with complaints over the season tickets and lounges prices increase. Was it really necessary to increase by so much? Can we be clear about club policy for prices at the end of next season? Do you think you could have handled the public relations aspect better in this matter?

KW: Well I think the season ticket increase was very reasonable. Other clubs have been putting them up 25-30%. The 8% was decided after 4,000 fans responded to the survey we did. Through that we tried to assess what would be a reasonable level to go to. We felt 8% was a reasonable amount.

MBE: The lounges suffered a fairly swingeing increase. Why?

KW: What has to be understood is that certain lounges were repositioned. This is different from just saying, “This is the same old lounge with the same old product and we’re going to put the price up.”

MBE: What do you mean by “repositioned”?

KW: Take the Alex Young Lounge for instance. We have made it all-dining, where before it wasn’t. So it’s “repositioning” in terms of the quality of the food and the décor. It’s like taking a restaurant from an Italian pizzeria up to a four star restaurant, that’s “repositioning.” And that’s what we’ve done in a couple of the lounges. And though it seems a big increase it’s in line with the new value we’re trying to offer. But it is a big increase and I understand that.

MBE: What kind of response has the club had directly from the fans?

KW: It’s been about fifty-fifty. Fifty percent have said if I follow through with the quality increases I am looking to do – particularly with the integrity of the lounges and not letting so many in, and they’re not so crazy as before – and if we get the customer service better then we’ll have no problem with the price increases. The other fifty percent have said, “This is way too much. It’s not what we’re used to.” I’ve seen a lot of people individually and had them come in the office so I could explain as clearly as I could. I think when people have understood what we’re trying to do, while they aren’t happy about the increases, they’ve understood two points: one, we’ve got the smallest number of hospitality resources in the premier league and we’ve got to try and close the gap. And secondly that the pricing that was there before was not accurate pricing for a business to run itself.

MBE: But you’re trying to strike a very fine balance here aren’t you? With very limited facilities you’re trying to increase the level of what you are delivering, but also facing the fact that a lot of fans are using it basically as a drinking area.

KW: That’s right. That’s why we’re trying to resposition it, to make a bigger contribution to the club. I’m on a hiding to nothing with it and I understand that. But I hope the fans too will realise that. The biggest question I would ask them all to say is, “If I’m streamlining the business as I am doing just now, and we’re cutting a lot of layers of fat out of the business, then the money that’s going to come in is going to go to the right places, to David Moyes and development.” If we’re doing that I think most fans will be happy. But we’ve got to realise that we are competing in a spiraling situation. It is a critical moment in the club’s history to try and take advantage of this European situation, and to move on. I think I would be almost derelict in my duty if I did not try and maximise the contributions in each area. There are some fans who say this should have been done before, that it’s long overdue. But I know when people have been used to things for many years it’s very difficult and we’re trying to be sensitive though there’s no easy way around it. I have to make every area of the club work as hard as possible. David Moyes will be the one who gets the reward with a bigger budget.

MBE: What is the situation with players out of contract and new offers? How many have reached agreement with the club?

KW: No comments on playing staff at the moment, Mike. We hope to answer that next week.

MBE: Incoming transfers. What news of Simon Davies and Scott Parker? Is the club actively pursuing other signings?

KW: Simon Davies is taking his medical as we speak. I’m not going to comment on any other discussions going on. But I am very active at the moment. Then again, being active and getting players to sign doesn’t always equate to the same thing!

MBE: Where has the money come from to fund incoming transfers? New borrowings?

KW: No. There’s no debt. Because we have managed this year prudently there is going to be a surplus generated in terms of the league position, TV money and other commercial areas we’ve put together. So that’s the main thrust of what we’re going to be spending.

MBE: So there will be no new borrowings and it will come straight from revenue?

KW: That’s certainly what we’ve come to.

MBE: You were quoted in the local press as saying there was £30 million available for players. It was obvious to me what the context was but some people took advantage of journalist vagary to create a non-existent “controversy.” Would you care to set the record straight in unequivocal terms for the fans?

KW: The quote I think you’re referring to, I gave as an example. I said if there was £30 million it could be £12 million in transfer fees and £18 million in wages. That was an example if that was the number.

MBE: So £30 million is NOT the number?

KW: No, because at that time we didn’t know where we were going to finish in the league, we didn’t know what the TV money was going to be – I think that was back in March – so we couldn’t have had a number at that time. I was only giving an example of what it could have been.

MBE: Are you any nearer to knowing the actual number?

KW: Of course I know what the actual number is now.

MBE: Are you going to say what it is?

KW: I’m not going to give any exact numbers but we’re going to be in the region between £20 million and £30 million. That’s as much as I am going to say. It’s a healthy situation to be in and I think we’re all reasonably happy about it.

MBE: What will be the projected minimum additional revenue from European competition? What will be seat costs for European games?

KW: Seat costs, we don’t know yet. We have a meeting with UEFA next week and they have their group coming across to go through all these issues with us. What people don’t realise is, if we got knocked out at the qualifying stage, and then got knocked out of the UEFA Cup at qualifying stage, we might only make say £500,000 out of the European adventure.

MBE: As little as that?

KW: Yes, after all the costs and wages have been paid and those sorts of things. If we get into the group stages of the Champions League we could go as high as £8-£10 million. So potentially it’s going to be the most lucrative game in the club’s history at that qualifying stage. Even at that, we have to be in the group stages for three years in a row to make a fundamental difference to the club’s finances.

MBE: So, administratively speaking, there’s going to be a few loose bowels around during the qualifiers?

KW: You would have that if you spent the money before you earned it. But we’re not going to let that happen.

MBE: Fans behaviour in Europe will be crucial to the club’s reputation. As we all know, the vast majority are fine. But there’s no question we have the same problem with racism as any other club. I’ve witnessed some of that racism and it is truly disgusting. In our case it is exacerbated by a small number of north Liverpool BNP members. Most veteran fans know who they are and the damage they cause when they try to infuse their poison into impressionable or easy led youngsters. At Highbury, a tidy-sized minority of racist thugs thoroughly shamed the name of the club with their behaviour. What advice do you have for fans who see all this and want to do something about it? What lead will you provide? You must have seen the article in the local press on this matter. You can be sure the same thing will happen again even though nobody with common sense wants it.

KW: We’re going to set up some sort of reporting hotline. We are also going to greatly improve our CCTV system at Goodison, which will help not only the racism situation but also the coin-throwing and pitch incursion problems we’ve had. We are really taking a lot of steps in that direction. The appointment of Alan Johnson, our race relations officer, is another step to show the club is committed to stamping this out.

MBE: I am thinking of individual fans’ actions also, Keith. I don’t have a problem with confronting racists and I’ve done it several times at various games, and they always back down like the cowards they are. But most fans are genuinely afraid to face up when they hear some kind of filth being shouted…………….

KW: The CCTV cameras will be the big thing. We will be looking at that very closely. But anything the fans can do in terms of reporting it to stewards, seat numbers etc., that will help us with the footage to look back on.

MBE: Are the stewards going to be trained in this matter? Because it’s a very touchy area with its own legal traps, I know that.

It is a difficult area, but our stewards are trained in that sort of sensitivity. The main thing is that we don’t want to provoke incidents or compromise crowd safety. But we can still take seat numbers, identify these people and take steps accordingly.

MBE: This is one fan amongst many who wants to thank David Moyes and his players and staff for a memorable season out on the pitch. Given the circumstances their achievments were little short of amazing. Due thanks too to everyone behind the scenes, to yourself and the staff, and the directors, split or not, for getting through the traumas in the end. For the first time in many seasons the fans are feeling really good about things, and with a great sense of anticipation for next season. I hope everyone at the club enjoys their holiday when they get it. They’ve earned it!

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